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Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

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101–110 of 177 posts

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#101
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While russia nuking themselves would be hilarious end of the current clown fiesta, I don't think they are that stupid, there is no way to explain that to public in favourable way to whichever side is left standing

I'm quite disturbed that you think a nuclear genocide on the Russian people would be "hilarious". It would be a humanitarian disaster and an almost unprecedented tragedy. Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people.

Sorry, I ran out of fucks somewhere in the middle of COVID. Them nuking their own army/PMC themselves would be small price if that ended Ukraine's conflict

> Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people.

I'm vilifying their leadership. But I'm still amazed there is no revolt there

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite disturbed that you think a nuclear genocide on the Russian people would be "hilarious". It would be a humanitarian disaster and an almost unprecedented tragedy. Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people.

Russia nuking themselves does not imply that tho. It would be same humanitarian catastrophe as Russia nuking Ukraine, Russia blowing up that nuclear plant in Ukraine they are currently likely planning to blow, Russia blowing up the damm. Meaning, it would be exactly the same humanitarian disaster as Russia is comiting elsewhere right now. Only difference is that a.) nationality of innocent victims b.) event that harm…

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm not saying we should somehow care more about Russians than about anyone else. I just don't think Putin nuking cities with millions of people would be hilarious in any sense of the word, and I don't see how that changes based on which side of the border it's on.

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#104
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite disturbed that you think a nuclear genocide on the Russian people would be "hilarious". It would be a humanitarian disaster and an almost unprecedented tragedy. Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people.

Sorry, I ran out of fucks somewhere in the middle of COVID. Them nuking their own army/PMC themselves would be small price if that ended Ukraine's conflict > Let's not participate in the vilification of the Russian people. I'm vilifying their leadership. But I'm still amazed there is no revolt there

>I'm villifying their leadership.

Do you think the nukes would hit the Kreml? Or potentially millions of innocent civilians?

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#105
post #90
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely at least part of the regular Russian army will have to be pulled back to defend Moscow.

The big question, the only question that really matters at this point, is will the Russian military remain loyal? If they don't then it's all over for Putin.

An additional qiestin would be is : how many experienced groups do they have vs new conscripts with minimal training?

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#106
post #95

@dang anything mentioning Wagner group is being flagged off the main page, I could see why some people would react that way when there’s a 20 articles shared about the same thing in an hour, but it’s a bit disturbing that there’s currently zero articles on the front page about this

There is a more and zero chance that those flags are not from general user accounts. Also @danf doesn't actually taf him from what I have read, there is an option at the bottom of the page(apparently, I've never used it XD)

Edit:

mailto:hn@ycombinator.com

Is the link at the bottom.

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#107

Does anyone have sources for this stuff? I am seeing a lot of conjecture and not a lot of substance. Is this whole thing based on a couple telegram videos? Is there anything to suggest they aren’t just propaganda deepfakes?

There was some doubt at the beginning, but now that Putin made a speech on national TV, I think there are no more doubts.

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#108

I wonder why they added quotation marks around "coup" in the headline? Is there anything nonstandardly-coupish about a military commander engaging in armed rebellion to overthrow the standing government? Seems to perfectly fit the textbook/dictionary definition of "coup".

It’s not a coup it’s a “special paramilitary operation”.

All jokes aside, Prigozhin says it's "not a military coup but a march for justice".

Incredible.

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. And I think it's often misunderstood that these parts don't actually need to have been under strict, detailed co-ordination to work, because the whole thing just needs to be set in motion when you have teams of people who can react on the ground. But some people had advance plans to create pressure in the knowledge that it might lead to disorder, and then exploit the uncertainty in the moment. It could really…

So in short, you're saying that a stochastic coup is a thing, and the Capitol case was an example of one?

No.

(I appreciate that I said "exploit the uncertainty" but I meant more the sort of news media confusion, unclear facts on the ground sort of uncertainty -- fast moving events)

Firstly: the Capitol violence wasn't a coup (or putsch) in and of itself. They had no organised plans to seize direct power. It was an armed mob assault, and everyone there knew what their job was: to stop the count. Some of them even went home when they realised they'd achieved it.

Second: it wasn't really stochastic in an important sense.

Stochastic terrorism is what I understand you to be alluding to by analogy. That is usually considered to be e.g. regular lone-wolf or small attacks that are implicitly encouraged by not being condemned. There is no organising thread or support network (unlike e.g. Al Qaeda and the Taliban).

The people encouraging that stuff don't know what specific outcomes there will be to exploit, but they have reason to suspect an increase in exploitable outcomes and they do nothing to stop it (or better, they are sort of notably half-hearted and equivocal in stopping it).

But in this case, the rally was long-planned and there was plenty of evidence online about who it was attracting. And all the other threads in the autogolpe I mentioned are planned and organised by a small group of people. This is widely understood -- the challenge is proving it in a court.

And it's not "stochastic" if you stand in front of that known crowd of people who have turned up to "stop the steal", and you tell them to "fight like hell". There's no defence that it is metaphorical, especially given everything we know he'd been advised. He (repeatedly) tried to get armed supporters allowed into the main crowd. "They're not here to hurt me!"

Almost nobody stands up in front of a mob and issues direct, unambiguous commands. You do that with a team or an army. Not with a mob. That's not the true power of that situation. You stand up in front of a mob, you use dogwhistles and the mob does what you want. Because that means you can try plausible deniability, which might keep you personally out of jail to do it all over again.

Trump is disordered but he is cunning; he knew he had an armed crowd out there, and he riled them up. And Giuliani literally has form for inciting a riot (of police officers!) so he knew what was going to happen too. They had to have an idea what the specific immediate time-sensitive outcome would be, and it is one they desired. That is not "stochastic". It's directed.

(Edited considerably, haven't had coffee yet)

Re: Russia 'Coup' Live Forecast

#110
post #83
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While russia nuking themselves would be hilarious end of the current clown fiesta, I don't think they are that stupid, there is no way to explain that to public in favourable way to whichever side is left standing

Easy mis information claiming it was US that nuked Wagner

Nuclear weapons have pretty clear signatures. That said, in the confusion afterwards it is of course debatable if any of that will matter.
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