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Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

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Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#101

Post by pixl97 »

api wrote: post #47
uejfiweun wrote: post #39

Zerohedge, which is basically just a Russian propaganda source, is saying that the Wagner chief is already attempting to walk back his comments. Which kind of makes sense, as a moderately sized PMC has approximately zero chance against the might of a nation. So I'm not really sure that anything is gonna happen here. Hope I'm wrong, though.

Related tangent: I predict that certain political movements in the US and Europe will implode if the Putin regime does. Would love to see if I'm right. Making popcorn.

Eh whoever takes the reigns next knows the power of those misinformation groups and will keep them around, with some slight purging.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#103

Post by lostmsu »

dbsights wrote: post #100

My guess: its a tactic designed to embolden the enemy and keep them committed to a failing strategy. Bakhmut was a meat grinder, but as long as the hope of victory could be kept alive in the Ukrainian army, they would keep sending their troops to slaughter. So we got all of these videos about chaos & ammo running out on the Russian side. And the Ukrainians obligingly poured manpower into an almost-perfectly-surrounde…

It does not make a lot of sense. If I were Ukrainian military, I'd stop fighting and just waited for the enemy to tear itself apart, only then advanced.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#104

Post by _V_ »

New audio statement by Prigozhin (00:03 BST), stating Wagner "crossed state borders in all areas" and is now entering Rostov, promising to "destroy anything standing in their way":

"The current situation: today, we were dealt a missile strike. After this strike, helicopters did their work. Then, artillery.

The orders were coming from the Head of General Staff to destroy PMC Wagner. After a meeting with the Minister of Defence Shoygu where they made this decision - to destroy the rebellious units, who are ready to defend the motherland, but not their asses.

As of now, we’ve crossed the state borders in all areas. Border guards came towards us and hugged our fighters.

Now, we’re entering Rostov. Units of the Ministry of Defence, in fact, the conscripts who were thrown to block our path, moved away.

We do not fight with children. We do not kill children. Shoygu is killing children by throwing untrained soldiers, conscripts included, into the war.

He set up 18-year-old lads against us. They’re like children and grandchildren to us. Therefore, these lads will live and return to their mothers.

We only fight with professionals. But if someone stands in our path, we will destroy EVERYTHING in our way.

We lend a hand to anyone. No need to spit in this hand. We are moving forward, going to the end.

Regarding claims regarding the arrest: this brotherhood, this justice, this honour, this conscience is what we have. But when you make these claims, you haven’t got these feelings. These feelings are destroyed. Thus, you cannot understand anything but betrayal."

Audio: https://t.co/eVLNEA708y

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672383249656496128

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#105

Post by [deleted] »

alvarezbjm-hn wrote: post #91
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #52

What kind of reaction people expect from this hackernews post? Anything that goes against the dogma will get shut down? What's the veracity of this article to begin with? In the age of digital transformation, what are the chances we are reading fake news from the Ukrainian front? They attack each other? well, if they killed some russians and stole their missiles, it's easy to create confusion on the adversary camp, c…

https://www.rt.com/russia/578547-prigozhin-fsb-armed-rebelli... I am not sorry to break the charm, but there is "SOMETHING" about it on Russian Television . You can't believe all details, but now both parts (East and West) are reporting that this is happening.

[deleted]

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#106

Post by _V_ »

Prigozhin, audio statement at 00:31 BST, stating that Gerasimov "gave an order for planes to bomb moving Wagner columns". It is unclear if these columns exist in reality:

"Just now, the Head of General staff gave the order to raise planes and open fire at columns moving through civilian cars, through trucks. He doesn’t care whom to kill. They’ve been killing own civilians for 1,5 years now instead of fighting with the enemy.

I want to say thank you to the pilots who, as it just became known, refused to obey criminal orders."

Audio: https://t.co/ASUwhevnMw

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672387845749702658

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#107

Post by ptero »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

> If they kill him, he'll become a martyr Prigozhin seems to be playing this savvily. Extremely savvily. He isn't directly threatening Putin. There is a face-saving change in which Shoigu et al are executed and Prigozhin and Putin split their cookies. Putin can frame it as discovering they lied to him, and possibly even re-set expectations for the war in Ukraine.

Totally an armchair opinion, but I think Prigozhin is a toast and he knows it. He cannot fight (troops hated, plus ranks decimated in Bakhmut) and cannot hide (no one will take him). He may be just trying to go down with a bang. My 2c.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#109

Post by bobsoap »

api wrote: post #47
uejfiweun wrote: post #39

Zerohedge, which is basically just a Russian propaganda source, is saying that the Wagner chief is already attempting to walk back his comments. Which kind of makes sense, as a moderately sized PMC has approximately zero chance against the might of a nation. So I'm not really sure that anything is gonna happen here. Hope I'm wrong, though.

Related tangent: I predict that certain political movements in the US and Europe will implode if the Putin regime does. Would love to see if I'm right. Making popcorn.

I wouldn't be so sure. Prigozhin founded the Internet Research Agency (Russian troll farm) for Putin back in 2013. He's the go-to guy for disinformation.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#110

Post by freitasm »

rdtsc wrote: post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

That's not the case. He is saying things against the Army but still saying Putin was misguided by Army information.

It's more like he's trying to save Putin's by saying "the war was not his [Putin's] fault.

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