Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

claudioholanda.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 222 posts

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#101

Post by EnragedParrot »

prometheon1 wrote: post #85
jonatron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a HN world of what's gaining traction and what "everybody" is using, and the real world reality. If I search for Django jobs on indeed, I get way more results for Django than if I search for Svelte (183:11). If I ctrl+f on "Who is Hiring?", the ratio gets a lot closer (13:4).

I think sametmax was saying that "everybody" is using React for usecases that Django could do long ago, and that Svelte is in the "gaining traction" category. On indeed.com I get 311 Django jobs and 3421 React jobs so in that sense it looks like "everybody" moved from Django to React.

I hear the argument being made, it just doesn't make any sense. We are using React to do things vanilla JS could do eyears ago. That doesn't mean React doesn't make doing those things easier. I like Svelte as well, but it likely wouldn't exist today without lessons learned from other frameworks like React.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#102

Post by tacker2000 »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

Exactly my words!

The only thing that I would single out here as actual progress is the container thing. This really has helped me a lot, with local dev and deployment. I havent touched any orchestration like k8s yet though, so I am still on the “lite” side.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#103

Post by 10xDev »

ravenstine wrote: post #93
cageface wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Svelte but I’m not sure I’d describe it as “minimalist”. It’s a new language with its own compiler and reactivity system.

[removed]

Reactive declarations that work using syntax outside of JS thanks to the compiler does make it a bit more than just JS. https://twitter.com/youyuxi/status/1057291776724271104

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#104

Post by EnragedParrot »

papito wrote: post #47
sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…

This sounds like a symptom of you falling behind the technology curve more than a problem with the technology curve. Most people are achieving vastly more with newer tech than ever could have been done in the early 2000s. You've gotta be looking through some densely rose colored glasses if you think that that the web in the 2000s was just as powerful as the web of today.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#105

Post by EnragedParrot »

gpderetta wrote: post #86
Gasp0de wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think technology choices should be made depending on the team. If you have 5 teams with 10 people each, then it is a great idea if your service is comprised of 5 microservices that talk to each other across team borders through well defined APIs. If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have.

> If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have. The fact that setting up your dev env takes such complex rituals and incantations that need to be prepacked in a spellbook is itself a red flag.

A well-tooled development environment takes minutes to set up.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#106

Post by rgrieselhuber »

tacker2000 wrote: post #102
sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

Exactly my words! The only thing that I would single out here as actual progress is the container thing. This really has helped me a lot, with local dev and deployment. I havent touched any orchestration like k8s yet though, so I am still on the “lite” side.

Totally agreed on containers but I’ve noticed so many developers promptly ignore using the containers that are set up for them when developing locally. Then days are wasted again on deployment issues down the road.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#107

Post by EnragedParrot »

wg0 wrote: post #67
zygo wrote: post #66

I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.

Could you please give a heads up what makes Seveltkit difficult in a larger code base?

Lack of dev familiarity.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#108

Post by chasd00 »

Gasp0de wrote: post #64
papito wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…

I think technology choices should be made depending on the team. If you have 5 teams with 10 people each, then it is a great idea if your service is comprised of 5 microservices that talk to each other across team borders through well defined APIs. If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have.

> If you have 5 teams with 10 people each, then it is a great idea if your service is comprised of 5 microservices

i've always thought a micro-service architecture should be decided and defined by the org chart and not technology.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#109

Post by _hl_ »

aitchnyu wrote: post #57

Tangential but is anybody doing SSR using Django or any non-js framework? What is your setup? Wish Django had a library that allows `return SSRResponse(bundlename, context=['foo', 'bar'])`.

Isn’t that what django’s html templating is designed for? It’s not interactive using js in the client, but it is rendered on the server.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#110

Post by wg0 »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #75
wg0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please give a heads up what makes Seveltkit difficult in a larger code base?

I have tried to use sveltekit once and turned around in 20 minutes as routing is severely limited. All I wanted to do was to route based on domain, with a different set of routes for one of the domains. Not exactly complicated or uncommon, but not something you can do with the sveltekit router.

As for routing, I guess that gets unmanageable pretty fast. Just in the sample blog tutorial here [0], you get confused with the number of files and nested folders that has same file names as level above.

[0] https://learn.svelte.dev/tutorial/params

Post reply on HN