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Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

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Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#101

Post by UncleMeat »

sokoloff wrote: post #58
yieldcrv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this still happening? Because nationally its been upheld as constitutional and would require a constitutional amendment. This interpretation of the sixth amendment isn't open to other interpretations. Specifically that civil cases are different than criminal cases, so they civilly charge the asset itself and the not the human being. Whoops. Subsequently, some states started changing their own laws to stop th…

There's still the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizures, which seems like it gives grounds here.

Sadly, a nontrivial portion of the scotus doesn’t give a shit about the 4th and will happily let police steal from people because drugs.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#102

Post by alex_young »

tptacek wrote: post #96
alex_young wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok you didn’t mention it unless I’m misreading things. What evidence did they find as to his future travel plans? Maybe with 18k he was planning on taking a longer route home or retiring in Colorado or something.

The text messages. Remember: even in Colorado, random people can't sell weed --- if the person he was texting wasn't a licensed dealer, he's got problems, and: casual buyers just rolling through Colorado don't generally text licensed dealers; you just show up and buy. If he was planning on retiring in Colorado, he could have told that to the sheriffs --- he did not, but rather told a story that fenced him off from al…

Ok so there is no evidence that he intended to traffic anything though NE. The details about his phone doesn’t sound like something meaningful to report on in this context to me.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#103

Post by UncleMeat »

_fat_santa wrote: post #20

This raises a question: why carry that much cash with you? Two things can be true at the same time: cops should not be seizing cash from folks on the side of the road without clear evidence of a crime, and it looks shady as hell if you are traveling with $18k in the backseat of your car.

There was a CAF case where the proceeds of a house sale were seized. Six figures. The person involved didn’t trust banks and so worked in cash. They had the documentation of the sale. All it took was a cop saying “people sometimes traffic on these roads” to steal six figures in cash.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#104

Post by WatchDog »

Buttons840 wrote: post #26
kickout wrote: post #12

Drive through this county everyday. The tricks they got up their sleeve are impressive if you don’t have a local plate. RIP to Illinois and Cali plates. ETA: Yes, everyday you drive through this county you will see cops searching vehicles (usually out of state plates, CO/CA/IL the most obvious). Almost feel bad for legit people driving through I80 with out of state plates, but the's what happens when you have a low p…

Do they have warrants to search to vehicles, or do they trick people into agreeing to the search? Or maybe they have a dog that does something like breathe near the vehicle, which is clearly cause for suspicion (\s)?

I imagine most people consent to a search, and they do the dog trick to search those that don’t.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#105

Post by yowzadave »

tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

> and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide

I feel like even entertaining these conversations about what crime the individual may have been contemplating allows the conversation to be derailed. If the individual had been caught in the act of handing over cash for illegal drugs, it would still be an outrageous corruption for the police to simply seize that cash and use it for their own purposes. It’s obviously a huge conflict of interest, and we should all be arguing for banning the practice regardless of the circumstances.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#106

Post by tptacek »

alex_young wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text messages. Remember: even in Colorado, random people can't sell weed --- if the person he was texting wasn't a licensed dealer, he's got problems, and: casual buyers just rolling through Colorado don't generally text licensed dealers; you just show up and buy. If he was planning on retiring in Colorado, he could have told that to the sheriffs --- he did not, but rather told a story that fenced him off from al…

Ok so there is no evidence that he intended to traffic anything though NE. The details about his phone doesn’t sound like something meaningful to report on in this context to me.

So, if you were on the jury, you'd acquit. If he's assured a jury consisting only of people like you, he's home free, and should call the sheriff's bluff and defend himself pro se to hold onto his cash.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#107

Post by tptacek »

yowzadave wrote: post #105
tptacek wrote: post #55

Without wanting to offer an opinion on the case presented in this article, and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide, the author of this news piece definitely smoothed down the facts alleged in Bouldin's case: The officer testified to various pieces of information that he obtained during the stop that led him to believe that Bouldin intended to purchas…

> and certainly not wanting to argue in favor of civil asset forfeiture, which is obviously abused nationwide I feel like even entertaining these conversations about what crime the individual may have been contemplating allows the conversation to be derailed. If the individual had been caught in the act of handing over cash for illegal drugs, it would still be an outrageous corruption for the police to simply seize t…

I'm not sure I follow. If he'd actually been caught trafficking, what would the conflict of interest be?

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#108

Post by alex_young »

tptacek wrote: post #106
alex_young wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so there is no evidence that he intended to traffic anything though NE. The details about his phone doesn’t sound like something meaningful to report on in this context to me.

So, if you were on the jury, you'd acquit. If he's assured a jury consisting only of people like you, he's home free, and should call the sheriff's bluff and defend himself pro se to hold onto his cash.

Th jury for the trial for the crimes they never charged him with? Maybe they didn’t have evidence of a crime if they didn’t charge him. What is your reasoning?

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#109

Post by tptacek »

alex_young wrote: post #108
tptacek wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you were on the jury, you'd acquit. If he's assured a jury consisting only of people like you, he's home free, and should call the sheriff's bluff and defend himself pro se to hold onto his cash.

Th jury for the trial for the crimes they never charged him with? Maybe they didn’t have evidence of a crime if they didn’t charge him. What is your reasoning?

That they had substantial evidence of his intent to traffic (see the other comment on this thread that tracked down the NE Supreme Court case, which cited even more evidence), and probably would indeed have arrested him if he didn't fork over the cash. I feel like I've been pretty clear about this.

Re: Using loophole, Seward County seizes millions from motorists without convictions

#110

Post by eyelidlessness »

bandyaboot wrote: post #41

Until federal courts put a stop to this insanity, I think congress should pass a bill that cuts off Federal Highway funding to any state that allows this sort of thing to happen.

Comments like this, however well-meaning, are so frustrating because they invite such a wide variety of reality checks that correct the specific impossibilities … but there is a very clear imperative and nothing to attach it to.

Federal courts should, and won’t.

Congress should, and won’t.

There are numerous others who should, and won’t.

We have countless examples of impenetrable injustice like this, and there isn’t any structural way to justice that’s remotely reliable or trustworthy. And it’s easy enough to respond with the glibness that others have: the reality is that the appropriate authorities are craven and the “should” is hopelessly naive.

The answer to that is one I continually find unfortunate and yet necessary. There are no heroes. No one is coming to save us but ourselves and each other. The body which will put a stop to this is us. And it won’t be done by behaving and deferring to some different part of the system that enables it.

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