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People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

psychologicalscience.org

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Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#101

Post by cat_plus_plus »

That's why confession obtained in unrestricted police interrogation can't be the only part of justice process. There first has to be evidence to detain and interrogate someone in the first place. The suspect must be informed of the right to remain silent and consequences of saying anything, and given an option to consult with a lawyer. Judges and juries should demand that collaborating evidence is presented to show that confession confirmed aspects of the crime that were not publicly known.

If someone is well aware that they will end up in prison if they "remember" something from teenager years and that they don't have to say anything / are free to go, they will be much less likely to play along vs a student who knows they are part of a study with no real life consequences.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#102

Post by lisasays »

I wonder if analogs can be found -- for example, in the way some people blame themselves for the "crime" of letting a marriage or relationship fail. Or allow themselves to be consumed by guilt when a loved one succumbs to an illness, or is lost in a horrible accident (that they feel they could have prevented, or reacted more quickly to somehow).

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#103

Post by Aerbil313 »

sin7 wrote: post #47
treeman79 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Even worse, a good portion of the population believes that a good portion now believes that ... whatever you just said. And this good portion is annoying. Bring up nonsense like this in conversations where it does not fit, in the middle of dinner, in the middle of pumping gas. Like damn, I'm watching out for one of those kids with a gun just waiting to exhibit his mental health and you want me to worry about the guy…

[flagged]

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#104

Post by iudqnolq »

yosito wrote: post #28

> The fact that the students appeared to internalize the false events to the extent that they did highlights the fundamental malleability of memory This seems like a bit of a leap to assume that this is about malleability rather than just lying to researchers and saying what they feel is expected. I could very easily imagine myself playing along with someone trying to convince me of false memories just because I don'…

I'm sure many of us have experienced the effect where you're having an argument with someone where it doesn't really matter and the other person agrees with you to shut you up.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#105

Post by dandanua »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #95
swayvil wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's a highly developed and systematized form of gaslighting. A significant technological advancement over the common amateur gaslighting. Like the machinegun isn't just another musket. Consider the progress of technology in the field of lying, bullshit and propaganda. We've been developing that stuff for literally thousands of years. It has surely been refined to such a height as to be nigh-perfectly secret, i…

It's a good thing it isn't used against the population at scale, huh.

Are you sure?

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#106

Post by Timon3 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #94
Timon3 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we just stop studying psychology completely?

Designing good studies is hard. That doesn’t mean we should just roll over and be satisfied with bad studies. The same applies to most studies about human diet and nutrition.

That is why I asked for some way to test for what GP complained about, and the only answer I got was "there is no way". Do you have a way to design a study so the complaint "well, the participants could be faking it" isn't valid? I'm legitimately asking, so far all I've gotten was "no way".

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#107

Post by lelanthran »

Timon3 wrote: post #63
canjobear wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this whole experimental paradigm is inherently unfixable.

So we just stop studying psychology completely?

> So we just stop studying psychology completely?

That's not the only option. Why is it the only one you can think of?

I mean, where are you going with "Our only options are to draw the wrong conclusions, or to stop studying it altogether"?

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#108

Post by ClumsyPilot »

canjobear wrote: post #45
emodendroket wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is just the latest of many studies suggesting memory is extremely malleable and suggestible.

If the studies are based on asking people if they remember the false event, they are susceptible to the same critique.

So is the legal justice system, witness testimony, job interviews, etc.

It does not matter if they lied, if lies are indistringyishable from truth. The conclusion holds.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#109

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #101

That's why confession obtained in unrestricted police interrogation can't be the only part of justice process. There first has to be evidence to detain and interrogate someone in the first place. The suspect must be informed of the right to remain silent and consequences of saying anything, and given an option to consult with a lawyer. Judges and juries should demand that collaborating evidence is presented to show t…

> There first has to be evidence to detain and interrogate someone in the first place.

No there isn’t. The cops can just claim you were in the are- even if you weren’t. And no, “asleep in my bed because the crime happened at 3 am” happens to not be an alibi.

> Judges and juries should demand that corroborating evidence is presented to show that confession confirmed aspects of the crime that were not publicly known.

It’s actually possible to coerce someone into confessing with details not even they know of, with the police nudging them towards details of the case not publicly known. “No, you’re lying about killing him with handgun, it’s not a nicer way to kill someone’s than how you actually did it, you wanted to get up close and personal didn’t you”.

> If someone is well aware that they will end up in prison if they "remember" something from teenager years and that they don't have to say anything / are free to go, they will be much less likely to play along vs a student who knows they are part of a study with no real life consequences.

Okay, but a student also isn’t being held and gaslit well into the night with no sleep, food, or water, constantly told “if you just cooperate we can help you” (a complete lie) by the cops.

Re: People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened (2015)

#110

Post by splendor_spoon »

emodendroket wrote: post #93
splendor_spoon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are welcome to add those points to the discussion but right now all we have a statement of, ‘but… but… they do it too!’. I appreciate the downvote though.

I can’t downvote your replies (I’m pretty sure in general you can’t downvote any replies to yourself on HN) so you’ll have to take that complaint up with someone else. Anyway, what, I’m “more than welcome” to add these points but in some other, unspecified way than I did that you would have preferred? I’m not really sure what your issue is. I think it’s encouraging complacency to say these things happened in the Orie…

Ooof. Well that is rather uncalled for.

https://aboutjapan.japansociety.org/content.cfm/whats_the_ma...

Moving on…

The GP quoted the article and found interesting anecdotes of said quote in history and brought them into the discussion with background information backing up the anecdotes. That’s interesting and additive to the discussion! Your comment did none of that except to slander another side of the world. This is not to say that there are not examples that would support your point, you just apparently don’t feel the need to add anything more!

Working with you on being a better citizen of society (please update your terminology…) is also not interesting or additive to this thread. So I am going to leave it at that. Have a nice day.

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