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Subreddit Migration Directory

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Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#101

Post by roelschroeven »

malermeister wrote: post #63
none_to_remain wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people implicitly desire that the federation graph is complete, or practically nearly-complete with some pariah servers cut off. To put it differently, they want to be "user@host" in a system with a global namespace, not "user" in the "host" namespace with patchy access to others.

The problem is that a complete graph doesn't really make sense because people are different and find different things acceptable. I don't want Nazi shit on my reddit replacement. I'm assuming a lot of people here wouldn't want theirs to be full of commie shit. Then there's the religious nuts etc etc. Think of it less as censorship and more as community self-segregation. I wouldn't go to a Nazi bar or Sunday school in…

On a service like Reddit a user can simply visit or join subreddits they are interested in, and ignore subreddits they are not interested, or which they find offensive.

The way the Fediverse works, as it is explained to newcomers, is that you can follow any topic on any server regardless of which server you are one. The expectation is that the graph is complete. When the graph is not complete, suddenly you can't follow your favorite topic because some users talking about a different topic did something that the admin on the other server isn't happy with. The whole server gets disconnected. Whichever server you choose to join, you always have the risk of getting defederated for things you have nothing to do with. Yes, you can change to a different server, but changing servers is not nearly as frictionless as it's sometimes made out to be.

In Usenet, to name another decentralized service, this is completely different. Servers can decide to carry or not carry a newsgroup, but they don't cut off a complete server for what happens in one of the newsgroups. (That's not to say that Usenet doesn't have problems of its own.)

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#103

Post by FeepingCreature »

p-e-w wrote: post #87
stevenwliao wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people disagree about the direction of a community, someone has to not get their way. There's no avoiding this in any group.

Which is exactly why the Fediverse doesn't solve anything. It's the most powerful trampling over everyone else – just like on Reddit, Facebook, and Twitter. The Fediverse is yet another middleman brokering communication between individuals, with all the associated problems.

However, the worst that can happen to you is that you stop interacting. This is as opposed to Reddit, where you can get removed from the platform as a whole, so it's still an improvement.

Lemmy and general Fediverse centers the workflow of spinning up your own community even against the will of the entire rest of the ecosystem. This is in complete opposition to Twitter, Reddit etc.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#104

Post by worrycue »

skissane wrote: post #89
fzeroracer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an issue, that's the intent of federation. It's IRC/Forums etc but at a larger scale where you can more easily connect to similar channels and forums. You either accept that communities have the right to self-police whom they can talk to or not, or accept that you want a central authority to do that for you.

> That's not an issue, that's the intent of federation People keep on comparing Mastodon to email. But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"…

> But, have you ever tried to send someone an email and had the email rejected with an error from your email provider saying "You can't talk to that domain because it insufficiently polices hate speech" or even "You can't talk to that domain because it lets its users talk to domains that insufficiently police hate speech"? Yet my impression of Mastodon is it is just like that.

That's how it is on Reddit too no? You visit and post a comment on subreddit A, somehow mods in subreddit B will find out and pre-emptively ban you.

On this Lemmy thing I guess the solution is to just maintain multiple accounts - each on a server connected to a particular cluster of servers.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#105

Post by RyEgswuCsn »

guywithahat wrote: post #34
unclekev wrote: post #19

Just went to the 'Programming' lemmy/beehaw and the first thing I see is a post about how they have had to defederate from some instances because of a lack of proper mod tools, trolls and bad actors. The irony. > https://beehaw.org/post/567170 > these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undes…

One of the biggest issues with the fediverse imo is moderation. People will literally create blacklists of sites, and if you don't follow the blacklist you'll get added to it. You end up in these situations where there are completely separate versions of the fediverse and the largest instances will often not be able to talk to each other. At least before Elon bought Twitter I know the most active (depending on how yo…

How do people feel about having some of the open-source LLMs offloading some of the moderation burdens? I understand it sounds rather dystopian, but I also feel if the model is developed transparently, it may offer a solution to the moderation problem.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#106

Post by codetrotter »

It’s a pretty short list at the moment. They should add the communities on my instance to the list.

https://zapad.nstr.no/post/31

=.=.=.=

Technology and Programming

c/technology – General technology news and links

c/rust – Links and discussions relevant for users of the Rust programming language

c/coolgithubprojects – Links to projects on GitHub, Gitlab, sr.ht, Codeberg, or other git hosts. If you found a project on any git hosting site, that seems cool or otherwise useful then it belongs here, as long as it is open source

c/programming – General links and discussions about the art and craft of programming

c/space – Exploration of space

c/machine_learning – AI & ML

c/bitcoin – For news and discussions about Bitcoin technology. Price discussions are off–topic. No posting about ICO sales, NFT sales or other kinds of token or coin sales.

c/ethereum – For news and discussions about Ethereum technology. Price discussions are off–topic. No posting about ICO sales, NFT sales or other kinds of token or coin sales.

c/linux – News and discussions relating to the Linux kernel as well as about Linux distributions like Ubuntu, Arch Linux, Debian, Gentoo, etc

c/freebsd – News and discussions relating to the FreeBSD Operating System

c/retro_computing – Sinclair ZX Spectrum, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, Amiga 1000, etc, etc

c/demoscene – All about the demoscene, an international computer art subculture focused on producing demos: self-contained, sometimes extremely small, computer programs that produce audiovisual presentations. The purpose of a demo is to show off programming, visual art, and musical skills.

-.-.-.-

Creativity and Entertainment

c/music – Talk about bands, artists, albums and songs

c/videos – Cartoons, entertaining videos, etc.

c/music_production – For singers, songwriters, producers and other people who make music

c/aiart – For pictures that you’ve made using OpenAI DALL-E, Midjourney, etc, as well as for news and discussions about such tools

c/drawing – Resources and discussions about drawing. You are welcome to show off drawings you’ve made. Note that for pictures where AI has been used a separate community c/aiart exists.

c/design

-.-.-.-

Sports and Lifestyle

c/skateboarding

c/travel – share experiences and pictures from your travels, ask questions about places you want to visit

c/surfing

c/sailing

c/climbing

c/skiing

c/snowboarding

-.-.-.-

Society, Life and Law

c/ipr – Intellectual Property Rights

-.-.-.-

Language specific communities

c/spanish – English discussions and links about the Spanish language, as well as Spanish learning resources. Posts and comments written in Spanish are welcome as well.

c/esperanto – English discussions and links about the Esperanto constructed language, as well as Esperanto learning resources. Posts and comments written in Esperanto are welcome as well.

-.-.-.-

Country specific communities

c/mexico – English and Spanish discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Mexico

c/spain – English and Spanish discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Spain

c/norway – English and Norwegian discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Norway

-.-.-.-

General

c/pictures – Share photos and pictures you’ve made. Note that for pictures where AI has been used a separate community c/aiart exists.

-.-.-.-

Come have look and make an account.

https://zapad.nstr.no/

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#107

Post by thaneross »

codetrotter wrote: post #86
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there you have it. Reddit has solved both performance / scalability and moderation, and thinking it can be solved by going distributed / federated is naive. Every Reddit alternative has failed / is not as successful is because of this.

> not as successful How do you measure success? Number of users? Number of posts and comments? It is possible to have a small community with few people and less activity, that maintains a higher quality of content than a bigger community with more people. The main danger of being small might be the threat of becoming an echo chamber because you are not exposed to as much variety in ideas. But even big communities som…

If Mastodon is any indicator, the Fediverse is already well optimized to create echo chambers.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#108

Post by fzeroracer »

skissane wrote: post #90
malermeister wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a complete graph doesn't really make sense because people are different and find different things acceptable. I don't want Nazi shit on my reddit replacement. I'm assuming a lot of people here wouldn't want theirs to be full of commie shit. Then there's the religious nuts etc etc. Think of it less as censorship and more as community self-segregation. I wouldn't go to a Nazi bar or Sunday school in…

Do you care if your email provider happens to give accounts to Nazis or communists or religious nuts, if you never happen to exchange emails with them? Do you care if your web host happens to host their websites? Why should a "federated Reddit replacement" have to be any different? If you subscribe to subs X and Y and Z, and none of that stuff is in those subs, does it matter to you if the instance (or other instance…

> Do you care if your email provider happens to give accounts to Nazis or communists or religious nuts

Email providers very explicitly do care. You can be banned from gmail for especially egregious things for example. If an email account was serving me nazi propaganda I would inform the platform, and if it was coming from a specific email provider they would likely be blacklisted. Keep in mind this already happens when it comes to spam; the difference is that nazis are not blasting random emails with nazi stuff so it becomes much harder to track.

> Do you care if your web host happens to host their websites?

Generally speaking, yes. We went over this before with Cloudflare and sites that were full of people harassing and harming other users. Responsibility eventually falls on someone and that someone was the host provider.

> Why should a "federated Reddit replacement" have to be any different? If you subscribe to subs X and Y and Z, and none of that stuff is in those subs, does it matter to you if the instance (or other instances it federates with) contains other subs–which you never visit–that do have it?

Because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how federated instances and content works, which is why I recommend you actually interact with those services before trying to make arguments. A user isn't subscribing to sub XYZ, they're a user of an instance which has subs XYZ and which federates to instance ABC. This is important because the instance is serving you that info, so if I like XY but hate AB, the instance can serve me content, users etc which are a part of AB. In fact, this is why Reddit does exactly what you seem to think they don't do. Many subreddits have bots, automod etc that will ban people that are from certain subreddits due to the content of their posts or how likely they are to troll. Defederation is a more explicit form of that.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#109

Post by Gareth321 »

hcks wrote: post #98
Gareth321 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatives don’t just appear out of thin air. No one’s going to purchase a huge server farm for a small user base. As Lemmy instances grow, more servers will be purchased. It happens organically.

Purchased with what money? People who migrated did so because ads are evil and 2$ per month is extortionate.

It's not $2 per month to the end user. Reddit wants to charge the wholesaler $2.50 per month. The developer needs to keep the lights on, so they need to charge more than that. There are server costs for Apollo, tech support, accounting, refunds, etc. Apple and Android take their 15-30% cut. The developer indicated a break-even price of between $5-$7. I'd be perfectly happy to pay $2/m for Reddit, and I'm happily donating to kbin.social to keep them running. The interface is much better than Reddit. Despite the lack of funding, their incentive is to create a great user experience.

It's important to remember that that $2.50 Reddit is charging isn't their cost. They're a business and they're baking in a health profit margin on that. The actual cost to them is a fraction of that, though of course they will never disclose the actual amount.

You might recall that back in 2000 we didn't have Reddit. It was lots of little forums hosted on machines in basements and with relatively cheap online hosts. Lemmy and Mastodon allows us to do that again, but this time, they're all connected together. This distributes costs across hundreds of thousands of people, instead of trying to make one giant platform the only choice.

Re: Subreddit Migration Directory

#110

Post by zimpenfish »

roelschroeven wrote: post #101
malermeister wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a complete graph doesn't really make sense because people are different and find different things acceptable. I don't want Nazi shit on my reddit replacement. I'm assuming a lot of people here wouldn't want theirs to be full of commie shit. Then there's the religious nuts etc etc. Think of it less as censorship and more as community self-segregation. I wouldn't go to a Nazi bar or Sunday school in…

On a service like Reddit a user can simply visit or join subreddits they are interested in, and ignore subreddits they are not interested, or which they find offensive. The way the Fediverse works, as it is explained to newcomers, is that you can follow any topic on any server regardless of which server you are one. The expectation is that the graph is complete. When the graph is not complete, suddenly you can't foll…

> they don't cut off a complete server for what happens in one of the newsgroups

Back in the dark ages when I was running a Usenet site, we would definitely drop servers if they were more hassle (spamming, providing blocked material, etc.) than we wanted to deal with.

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