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Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

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Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#101
post #68

Today while I was searching it was a double whammy because Stackoverflow was down. So Reddit content was gone and StackOverflow too. That's basically the two resources for coding knowledge gone.

RTFM and #GetGud. That's what we did in my day. Sure only nerds could stand using the software we produced, and installing any software was a dice roll on corrupting the windows registry, but hot-damn if you couldn't be wrong with the confidence that nobody will know better!

/s

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#102
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't google used to show a link to their cached version for every result?

They definitely did. I don't know if it's still there, maybe in some (hamburger) menu attached to the results, if any? In any case I think their cache is still readable, but their googlebot is fast and may be quick to get rid of the cache if a page disappears… Recently, I've had bad luck with search engine caches when trying to read a page that does not exist anymore.

You have to click on the kebab menu next to the result title - you should see a modal popup titled "About this result". Then you either have to expand the "More Options" collapsed at the top to see the "Cached" pill, or scroll to the bottom of the modal to see it - it seems like they have 2 versions they're A/B testing.

I'm not sure why but it seems like they're really trying to make it hard to find.

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#103

I've said it before, the web's demise is Google's fault. SEO optimization has pushed content 'producers' to generate page after page. There are websites that have a page for every Microsoft KB error out there pointing to their own product. It even is starting to overtake YouTube. All just to get higher in Google and push (malicious) ads to visitors.

What you're seeing on Google is the content that's most well adapted to Google's algorithm. There's a lot of stuff that is not as well adapted. For the most part it hasn't gone away, it's just not able to compete with the bullshit. At the same time I don't think Google is exclusively at fault. I think their dominance in shaping web traffic is a far bigger factor.

I would expand on that to say that Google's algorithm no longer has anything to do with showing you the best results. It has been altered or adjusted to show you or get you to click on the most ads. It's the same thing Facebook did with its feed, except that Google isn't, generally, monetizing platform engagement (though YouTube certainly is).

So yes, it's some part SEO, but it's also Google biasing things that aren't actually the 'best' results for what you're searching for in order to show more ads.

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#104

It's really disturbing just how bad Google search has become. For so many cases Google actually is only useful as a search interface for Reddit, StackOverflow, and other sites that accumulate (and actually garbage collect) knowledge. Without such a qualifier Google will just give you absolute SEO trash results for many types of searches.

I'll take this opportunity to mention Kagi. I've been paying for Kagi search for a bit over a month now. Not only are the raw search results far better than Google ever was, but the search engine is privacy focused, allows you to easily create your own block lists of sites you don't want to see, and has some fancy AI bells and whistles that allow you to summarize both individual pages and all of the results of your search.

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#106

It's really disturbing just how bad Google search has become. For so many cases Google actually is only useful as a search interface for Reddit, StackOverflow, and other sites that accumulate (and actually garbage collect) knowledge. Without such a qualifier Google will just give you absolute SEO trash results for many types of searches.

There's a really good example that someone found in the wild, where Google would omit exact string matches, but could then be coaxed into producing them indirectly.

It is disturbing because I thought this was a problem we had solved 20 years ago. If I could remember a few details about something that was indexed by Google, I used to be able to just find it.

[1]: https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/rqzvf3/why_doe...

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#107

Actually though, is SEO/spam so out of control that allegedly the best software engineers in the world are unable to counter it? Are bad results actually good for google in some perverse ad-based way? Do people at google actually use their products at all?

They could build Bard, they can have ML model to judge if site is SEO spam but the more you click/search the more money for them.

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#109

I've said it before, the web's demise is Google's fault. SEO optimization has pushed content 'producers' to generate page after page. There are websites that have a page for every Microsoft KB error out there pointing to their own product. It even is starting to overtake YouTube. All just to get higher in Google and push (malicious) ads to visitors.

I think this is EXACTLY the problem with algorithms and AIs to build an index. You don't have a human in the loop to go "ok, enough of this bullshit, if you keep doing this we're going to ban you from our service."

The whole "ladder climb to first place" ruined search results. There was nothing wrong with being on page 2 -- if page 2 contained USEFUL RESULTS TO BEGIN WITH. Usually you get half a page of local stuff, followed by half a page of useful stuff, followed by maybe 2-3 pages of gibberish and regurgitated stuff.

Like a reddit topic will be posted on a bunch of 'forums' verbatim with all the comments as replies, because there are that many 'fake forum' sites out there seeded with that content lol. Same with stack overflow, really. (maybe stack overflow clones are the worst).

My favorite are the info sites that try to get you to download malware to solve your problem. XD

Re: Tell HN: Google search sucks even more during Reddit blackout

#110
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google loves to group results by domain too. Say you search for something related to your hobby. Somewhere on the page is going to be a hit from the forum for that hobby, but just below it in a smaller font will be like a half dozen sub hits from that same domain, then that's all there is for that domain in the search results. Never mind that all the relevant knowledge online on this something might be contained in t…

Doesn’t it depend on the domain authority of the back links? Sites like Reddit are no follow so I don’t understand why a bot reposting links there would bolster its ranking

Google has been more squishy on nofollow in the last few years:

https://twitter.com/g33konaut/status/1225704499660107776

So Google does follow nofollow links. In this tweet you can see they won't go as far as definitely saying there is no impact on page rank.

https://twitter.com/dannysullivan/status/1532037901403336704

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