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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

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101–110 of 155 posts

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#101

>In Pirsig’s book there is never a mention of the make and model of his motorcycle. This past weekend I was on a road trip to South Carolina. On the way, most every motorcycle that I saw was a BMW. I told my girlfriend after seeing the Nth that it can't be a coincidence, and I went and found out there was a BMW motorcycle rally taking place that weekend. Anyway, seeing some old BMWs made me remember the book, and I m…

I wondered why the guy who published chapter 2 didn't talk about the other couple's resistance to maintaining their bike and Pirsig's take on that.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#102
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses" Say more. I feel I'm the exact opposite if I understand you correctly.

The actual quote, from the OP, is "Pirsig proposes that to become expert at keeping anything in good repair, you need to understand it in two ways—how it works and how it’s made" This seems intuitively sensible for mechanical / physical objects, although I'm not sure how well it applies where the broken thing is software, with deep complexity and multiple layers of abstraction.

I read the book long before I went to work in tech. In my mind, it really helps with troubleshooting software issues as I feel better qualified to "fix the thing that's wrong" if I have a complete understanding of all the moving parts. So many people i work with freeze if a restart doesn't work. They don't consider at all the overall design of "the thing"

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#103
One aspect of maintenance is understanding the mindset of the original designer. This is pleasant for very well designed machinery. Here's a long description of a Teletype restoration I did a decade ago.[1] Mostly this is about the mechanical processes, but sometimes I wrote about the thinking behind the design.

Teletypes were originally rented, with maintenance included. So they were intended to be reliable and repairable, and capable of a long life with periodic maintenance. All parts outside the motor are individually replaceable. Parts were treated against corrosion by Parkerizing, a chemical treatment involving hot caustic baths that leaves a rust-resistant coating. Few parts are unreasonably tiny, so you don't need tweezers and magnifiers. This did result in a bulkier machine than really necessary. Most moving parts are powered in one direction and spring return in the other direction. If something sticks, that doesn't cause further damage. Almost every screw has a lock washer. One of the few exceptions was due to a drafting error, as I mention in my writeup.

Mechanism design balances size, cost, ease of repair, wear, and lubrication requirements. The number of people really good at that is not large. All the good Teletype machines were designed by two men, Howard Krum and, later, Ed Klienschmidt. There were some other, inferior designs best forgotten. (The Teletype Model 26 was what happened when management wanted a cheaper machine than the classic Model 15. Many Model 15 machines are still running; few Model 26 machines are. And the Model 26 turned out to be no cheaper to make.)

Once you can appreciate this, you'll see good and bad mechanical designs more clearly. It's clearer in the mechanical realm than the software realm, because failure is more obvious.

[1] http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=43672

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#104
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

"Backup transportation solution", it can be public transit, or even a bicycle if it's enough to get you where you need to, but yes that's my opinion. Even something as simple as an oil change can go wrong. Drain plug broke and you need a new one? Or you forgot to put a gasket and it leaks and now all your oil is on the floor? Well, now you need a trip to the parts store, or order it and wait until parts get there. In…

> at a third of the pressure specified on the manual, the reservoir ruptured

Hey, better this happen while you're wrenching than when you're zooming through the twisties and need to stop

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#105
post #100

As someone who read Zen the first time many years ago, the book talks about the joy you get from seeing the world on a motorcycle (or bicycle) over being in a tank like car where you don't fully experience your environment. At its heart though, Pirsig used the concept of motorcycle maintenance as an examination of quality, value, and what brings people fulfillment. It takes a meandering path to get there which is pro…

The book was on the recommended list for second year Industrial Design students at my school. The discussion on quality is why it was there.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#106
post #100

As someone who read Zen the first time many years ago, the book talks about the joy you get from seeing the world on a motorcycle (or bicycle) over being in a tank like car where you don't fully experience your environment. At its heart though, Pirsig used the concept of motorcycle maintenance as an examination of quality, value, and what brings people fulfillment. It takes a meandering path to get there which is pro…

can you talk more about gumption (inspiration) traps you experienced at work? i take this to mean some powers-that-be destroyed internal motivations you had?

also curious to hear your learnings on holding onto inspiration.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#107
post #48
post #3

I find the root premise flawed. I have known many people that loved working on cars. The plethora of very old vehicles where I live kind of holds that up, as well. My truck is 23 years old, and I'm positive it isn't even close to the oldest around here. Even closer to the general idea, the radio show "Car Talk" was less about cars than the name would have implied. Would love to see it revived in spirit. That said, st…

I think the key is that motorcycle riding hooks you into the machine in a way that few car builds can replicate. Motorcycle maintenance and riding is a tighter loop, with far higher stakes if simple procedures are not followed. Troubleshooting may be similar across all machines, but the best troubleshooting is not having to do it at all. If nothing else, the tight loop created by the motorcycle teaches preventative m…

There is a similar type loop between old "British" racing cars I spent a fair amount of time driving cars from the 50 and 60s. The driving experience was a combination of boat/biplane/tractor. The little British cars had a certain sound that was correct and any variation from that sound was heart stopping. The best example from my experience happened on the Taconic Parkway. The sound shifted as the fan blades started to detach and fly off. I had no idea of the cause until I opened the hood.

Here is additional reading about mechanical things from a different era.

https://mossmotoring.com/manhattan-mechanic/

https://mossmotoring.com/souvenirs-and-socket-sets/

I'm sure non-british cars of that era are similar.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#108
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment to make towards someone you know virtually nothing about. I'm not the person you responded to, but I put about the same number of k's on my motorcycle as on my car, more in summer. I consider my bike just as indispensible as my car, and don't at all consider it just a hobby.

I said it sounds like it. Meaning that, on my priors of every other experience I have with folks that have a motorcycle, it sounds like this. If you are putting the same number of miles on a motorcycle as a car, you either don't have to drive much, or are in some other very fringe situation. Pretty much period. Yes, it can and does happen. It is in a minority of cases though. Happy to be shown data that this is not t…

I use my motorcycle as my main commuter vehicle. It's safe to say I drive it 3-4 times as much as my car, which only leaves home for grocery shopping and long (2+ hour) drives at this point. If you live alone, or even with just a significant other, it's a really convenient way to get around. Plus it's more fun.

What are you doing so much driving for that requires a car?

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#109
post #75
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me bicycle maintenance is tedious. It’s something I do too on keep my bike running smoothly but not something I look forward to. Motorcycle maintenance is more rewarding. I have a 70s bike so it requires a lot of work to keep it running smoothly. Motorcycle maintenance more complex and I find far more enjoyment in it. It can be tedious, but it’s not as bad as adjusting a derailleur or lubricating a chain. I think…

I kind of see it both ways. Some really complex stuff on motorcycles is incredibly time consuming & hard. The two hardest jobs I did on my motorcycles were: First - Repairs after a big racetrack crash where the bike slid and then cartwheeled after crashing around 70mph in a corner. Bike would have been totaled for sure if it was a street crash. It took me months to fix everything considering I was working full time.…

I totally see what you’re saying. When i work on my car it can be tedious, complex, time consuming. It’s fun, rewarding but also tiring. Especially since it’s my daily. I can’t have it off the road for more than a couple days.

I should have elaborated more, but I have a tiny 70s bike. It’s has a two stroke, air cooled, carbonated engine. I could probably rebuild the motor in an afternoon. It’s incredibly easy to access nearly everything so it’s far more enjoyable. I much rather do that than work on my bicycle.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#110

Having tried to read Persig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I struggle to understand the book's popularity. The more I read the more I was convinced it was not the work of a healthy mind. Maybe he was schizophrenic? Wikipedia says yes, he was. As someone who enjoys working on my own car and motorcycle - and as someone who does find a certain zen in maintaining the machines that I own - the book was a pro…

I think the problem is you didn't finish the book. It pretty directly answers your question and dives deeper into philosophy than many philosophy courses do... it sounds like you quit too early. I agree that the early rambling was a bit hard to deal with.
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