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Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

teslamotors.com

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Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#101

Post by surrealize »

blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

Of all your devices that have run out of charge, have you let them sit that way for months? If not, then you're making an invalid comparison.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#102

Post by jamesgatz »

blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

OK. I have to say I think you're acting bizarrely entitled. "Bizarrely" because you're acting like you're entitled to fictitious, impossible technology. Objects that exist within the physical world require maintenance to retain their use. Even with that maintenance, they will eventually degrade. Things fall apart. Tesla's maintenance requirements - "plug your car in once every twelve months" - are absurdly reasonable.

The conversation surrounding this issue reminds me of an adult explaining to a child why their goldfish died. If you don't feed the fish, the fish dies. If you don't take care of your toys, your toys break. In this world, entropy is the natural order of things. And there's no world but this world. So stop complaining and plug your car in.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#103

Post by unavoidable »

burgreblast wrote: post #25
redthrowaway wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. The solution? Don't run out of fucking gas. That didn't stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will this halt the rise of EVs.

Sounds like you knew all along that the Tesla battery could be bricked by running out of charge? That would make you one of a very small minority. The original story got play because it was a surprising, unknown, and frankly, sucks. If all of my fuel-injected laptops had never been damaged when they ran out of fuel, I would be pretty shocked and disappointed when it was a problem with the Kugelfischer. Much like the…

Except that this problem is inherent in battery technology and the same thing happens to all EVs.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#104

Post by gnaffle »

mansolo wrote: post #46
revelation wrote: post #30

What is wrong with you people? You are really trying to kill off cars because you got a horse carriage at home. The horse can when coupled reproduce itself, all it takes is some food and water to keep going, its unlikely to break down, you can be flexible by changing from a one-seater to carrying raw material in the blink of an eye. Obviously, the horse is vastly superior to its new "car" competitor. Only a moron wou…

I feel you on this one, but building an industry on misinformation is not the way. Another thought: maybe we need to stop being so obsessed and utterly dependent on cars in general. Live locally, support your community, become more self-reliant, leverage personal technogy.

I can hardly see that Tesla has provided any misinformation. They have apparently told owners that it is important to keep the batteries charged. Which owners will in the typical usage scenario.

Maybe a big, red warning sticker on the door would make people happy?

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#105

Post by scott_s »

ugh wrote: post #83
Arjuna wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

Yes, it is Tesla's fault. Clearly. You shouldn't need to read a manual to drive a car. Tesla has to make sure things behave like people expect them to behave. That's how people are going to see it, anyway. Owning up to it would be a small price to pay for Tesla.

The only reason that we don't need to read a manual for normal cars is that we have grown up knowing that they need basic maintenance, and what that maintenance is.

Imagine the flip side, that electric cars were normal, and internal combustion engines were unusual. Then we could have stories about owners ruining their engines because they never changed their oil.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#106

Post by mikeash »

morrow wrote: post #99
mikeash wrote: post #45

Here's something I'm still unclear on: how strongly were owners warned about this beforehand? If Tesla cars come with a bright red warning on the driver's side window saying IF YOU DO NOT KEEP THIS CAR CHARGED THEN YOU RUN THE RISK OF REPAIRS COSTING UP TO $40,000 then I'd say Tesla is completely in the right here. If they didn't mention this anywhere and it's just something owners discover because they use it in a w…

These (apparent) e-mails between an owner with the dead battery issue and Tesla seem to indicate that there is a a 'built-in notification system' for this, but it wasn't added for the first 500 cars : http://jalopnik.com/5887504/tesla-emails-gallery/gallery/1

A problem like this really needs advance warning, not just a notification when the problem is about to develop, since the owner may not be in a position to get the car plugged in if they don't know it could occur beforehand.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#107

Post by wtallis »

ghaff wrote: post #98
Arjuna wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

At least with the 2008 manual I looked through, the warning (which doesn't seem to be as detailed as the more recent one) appears in section 5-2 of the manual. Well past all the dire warnings about using seat belts and how the car may contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer. I wouldn't conclude--based solely on this evidence--that everyone would be fully aware of the seriousness of letting…

You really can't fault Tesla for putting the battery warnings after the legally required warnings. They most likely have no choice. Now, if the battery warnings aren't immediately after the legally mandated warnings, that is Tesla's fault, but you have to keep in mind that it is totally reasonable to expect a first-time EV owner to read the section on charging.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#108

Post by hyperbovine »

cyrus_ wrote: post #40
URSpider94 wrote: post #2

This is PR mastery. Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge, and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to several months. The…

This is almost PR mastery. PR mastery would be saying that the blogger is correct before listing the facts about how insanely long you have to leave the car unplugged for the battery to become inoperable, and detailing what steps Tesla is taking to make this less of an issue (i.e. making it more prominent in their manuals, working on "deeper" sleep, etc.) As it stands, this makes me think that Tesla likes to play wit…

Saying "the blogger is correct" at the top of the post would cause a significant portion of the readers to close the tab and never think about buying a Tesla again. To me that's a PR fail.

Also, nowhere in the post do they mention GPS--only that the car (optionally) phones home its charge level. As best I can make out that's an unfounded rumor based on a single incident.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#109

Post by seanos »

scott_s wrote: post #105
ugh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is Tesla's fault. Clearly. You shouldn't need to read a manual to drive a car. Tesla has to make sure things behave like people expect them to behave. That's how people are going to see it, anyway. Owning up to it would be a small price to pay for Tesla.

The only reason that we don't need to read a manual for normal cars is that we have grown up knowing that they need basic maintenance, and what that maintenance is. Imagine the flip side, that electric cars were normal, and internal combustion engines were unusual. Then we could have stories about owners ruining their engines because they never changed their oil.

"Imagine the flip side, that electric cars were normal, and internal combustion engines were unusual. Then we could have stories about owners ruining their engines because they never changed their oil."

No you wouldn't because an oil change is part of the annual service for the car. Everyone knows that if you neglect to follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule for a car you might get problems. On the other hand, many people see charging the car as analogous to filling up a tank with fuel - not as maintenance - that's why they are surprised that failing to do so for a few weeks could "brick" the car.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#110

Post by redthrowaway »

burgreblast wrote: post #25
redthrowaway wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. The solution? Don't run out of fucking gas. That didn't stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will this halt the rise of EVs.

Sounds like you knew all along that the Tesla battery could be bricked by running out of charge? That would make you one of a very small minority. The original story got play because it was a surprising, unknown, and frankly, sucks. If all of my fuel-injected laptops had never been damaged when they ran out of fuel, I would be pretty shocked and disappointed when it was a problem with the Kugelfischer. Much like the…

>Sounds like you knew all along that the Tesla battery could be bricked by running out of charge? That would make you one of a very small minority.

Comprising all Tesla owners. It's in the Owner's Manual, and I would be very surprised if new owners aren't informed of it when they purchase the car.

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