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‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#101

Post by theptip »

it_citizen wrote: post #57

I am going to lose some karma over that comment: As someone who has not watched star wars before being adult but is pretty fond of fantasy and sci-fi, I am wondering if the simplest explanation for the constant disappointments is that the universe and source material are not that great in the first place. Is it possible that in 2023, a good chunk of the love for star war movies is due to fond childhood/90's memories…

I think it’s the exact opposite. The universe is one of the most compelling around. There is so much fiction (cannon and non-canon), and there was even a pen&paper RPG back in the day that was great fun. There is an enduring love for the universe because it’s a great tapestry for many types of story.

I do agree there is a lot of rose-tinted fondness for the movies; they don’t hold up well IMO. The problem for new blockbuster movies is that the Campbell “hero’s journey” story style is incredibly cliche these days. In many ways the original Star Wars defined the tropes but you can’t just go back and revisit and do another “it’s your destiny to save the galaxy” arc after the Skywalker saga.

My prescription would be to really lean into the richness of the universe, and tell some truly new stories. Mandolorian was trying to do this but they chickened out and added baby Yoda as a callback to the original storyline, plus there were no Jedi at the point I got bored and stopped watching in S2 - there is a tension here as I think there are interesting non-Jedi stories to tell, but after a while you really want to see the magic. I also think a lead with an inexpressive mask was a tactical error that compounds after a while.

There is a bunch of interesting stuff you could explore in the Old Republic timeline, or you could forge new canon in the post-Skywalker era (maybe go forwards a millennium or so and construct some new power dynamics, perhaps tell some fall of empire / decadence / rise of dark side stories).

I think the new anime series (Visions) is some of the best content to come out of the universe, and it’s certainly fresh. It really showcases how much potential there is to tell interesting stories in the universe, and the shift to anime allows the Jedi to be more over-the-top in a way I find very entertaining. But I acknowledge that it’s just shorts, and so it suggests they really haven’t figured out how to tell a fresh movie/series-length story in that universe.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#102

Post by the_doctah »

wnevets wrote: post #90
the_doctah wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race and gender swapping every established popular character? Checklist casting? Butchering She-Hulk and The Wasp with this insane "girl boss" fetish (Let's not forget the cringe girlboss moment from Endgame)? Making shows like "Echo" and "Agatha Harkness" that appeal to almost no one for the sake of having female leads? This isn't even considering the comics, which as an industry, has been dying because of all the s…

> Race and gender swapping every established popular character? What exactly makes that "progressivism"? Also why don't you consider characters like X-23 a gender swapped Wolverine?

You don't think diversity is progressive? Also, yes of course I consider X-23 to be a gender swapped Wolverine.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#103

Post by TMWNN »

the_doctah wrote: post #68
mcphage wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet you didn't notice that progressive ideology was a big part of Marvel's entire existence?

Yes, I know because Stan Lee created the X-men, people love to claim Marvel was always super progressive. I'm sorry, but that simply is not the case, and you are wrong. 99% of comic books I own have zero trace of your supposed progressivism.

>Yes, I know because Stan Lee created the X-men, people love to claim Marvel was always super progressive. I'm sorry, but that simply is not the case, and you are wrong. 99% of comic books I own have zero trace of your supposed progressivism.

Correct.

Marvel and DC comics up to a few years ago, and the pre-Discovery Star Trek franchise, shared a broad-church liberal view of the world. Stories that explicitly pushed an agenda for the sake of agenda-pushing were mocked by fans, and other writers would ignore them or explicitly retcon the stories out.

Now we have (no joke) a transvestite member of the Legion of Super-Heroes travel 1000 years to the present day to march in a Pride parade.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#104

Post by 0zemp3c »

googlryas wrote: post #8
0zemp3c wrote: post #2

its a tired cliche but Disney really did run right into "get woke, go broke" I've seen interviews with the directory of She-Hulk where she seems to revel in the fact that the "fandom" was crapping all over her show... "this will piss off all the right people!" is not a business strategy they really did kill Star Wars Marvel too its probably too late to save either, as Disney thinks more bad, woke content is the answe…

She-hulk is a comedy series on a streaming-only platform. Their Star Wars movies consistently make >$500M, and that says nothing of the merchandising, amusement parks, and other tie-ins. I think they're going to be okay.

huh? Solo LOST money

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#105

Post by norwalkbear »

Timon3 wrote: post #85
intalentive wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alignment with current social issues happens based on calculations of profit, not based on sincere ideological commitment. Yeah, Bud Light was just “calculating profit” when it alienated its customer base.

Yes, they did. They had a calculated marketing campaign where they paid various influencers to market towards their respective audiences. I'm sure they made a risk analysis - and if you look at other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry, you'll see that it's more bad luck than anything else that the conserviative media machine focused so much on them.

I don't think so. Gay Marriage bills didn't even pass in California, or 29 other states. The supreme court overturned the will of Americans (btw I'm French).

It's clear American elites are far far more liberal progressive than the American people themselves. The country that had Nixon win in a landslide, brought Trump too.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#106

Post by the_doctah »

Timon3 wrote: post #87
the_doctah wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alignment with current social issues happens based on calculations of profit, not based on sincere ideological commitment. I guess they need to do a better job with their market research. Because destroying Luke Skywalker and redefining the Mary Sue trope doesn't seem like what the public wanted.

Did you read my previous comment? I explained reasonably clearly that they didn't focus on making a good movie. You yourself are saying that destroying Luke Skywalker and redefining the Mary Sue trope doesn't seem like what the public wanted. But I'll guarantee you that there was a lot of market research which determined that: - strong female leads are popular - "defying expectations" is popular - Marvel style humor…

Your comments about what Disney thinks is popular amount to nothing but conjecture on your part. Meanwhile, the sequels were not well received by fans. And, while I'm certain you would make the argument about the movies making money, they underperformed with regards to expectations. Merchandise did not sell. Solo lost money because of the bad sequels. Spin-offs were canceled.

So, regardless of market research or whatever, the end result was not good.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#107

Post by norwalkbear »

garbagecoder wrote: post #37
Timon3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a forced, ideologically-driven tarnishing of their childhood memories I'm sure there is a minority that believes this, but the majority know that there is no ideological drive, only a greed one. Alignment with current social issues happens based on calculations of profit, not based on sincere ideological commitment. Making good movies is hard, making movies following current social issues is easy. Both bring money,…

Definitely some people were put off by the ideological bent to it. I found it slightly grating (and I'm a center-left type), but I could have excused it if there was anything else to the films. The first one seemed promising if finished, but the rest were just sloppy. In other words, it's not like an unwoke version of those films would have been good. Like, they resorted to bringing Palpatine back. That's not being f…

Making it less woke would have made it successful with one simple trick . Let Luke be a positive male hero.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#108

Post by dogma1138 »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #14
skizm wrote: post #12

The force awakens grossed above $2B, and the next two grossed around $1B each. Their budgets were around $250-300M. They'll be fine.

Compare those numbers to Marvel and you’ll see what a wasted opportunity they created.

I think you’re overestimating how much money reach marvel flick brought in there were huge but also many that didn’t break 1B WW box office revenue. The big difference between Marvel and SW is that Disney was churning out far more Marvel films especially in Phase 2 and 3 https://m.imdb.com/list/ls040671689/

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#109

Post by norwalkbear »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #43

Commenters seem upset that the reason the movies suck is that they are somehow ideological, probably "woke". This puts the cart before the horse. What do you expect to get when the whole context of the article is about how Disney could milk more money using some acquired intellectual property? The endless sequels are meant to make money, not be good movies with creative new ideas - those are risky. Whatever wokeness…

I think Bud Lite proves liberal executives are supremely out of touch.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#110

Post by norwalkbear »

adsfgiodsnrio wrote: post #25

>The third Skywalker trilogy started off with a bang in late 2015 with The Force Awakens, only to end with a whimper four years later as fans deserted the franchise. The Rise of Skywalker grossed over a billion dollars at the box office. The current crop of TV shows are some of the most popular things on TV. That isn't what I'd call "desertion". Disney can milk Star Wars for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if…

The star wars hotel is a billion dollar loss.
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