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240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

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Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#101

Post by gumby »

soulbadguy wrote: post #63
Springtime wrote: post #28

Will be interested to see if AllThingsOnePlace reviews it, as have been following their particularly in-depth power adapter reviews and their last review[1] of a Framework charger (a 60W model) showed it performed well both in efficiency and other metrics though not the highest performer or value in its wattage range. Wouldn't ordinarily mention a Youtube channel on HN but felt their detailed testing, comparisons and…

Seconds the recommendation of AllThingsOnePlace as great place to learn about usb psu in general. But watching his video I can't help but wonder with all the talk about the important of energy at the national level, why this kind of analysis is not done by one of gov. Agencies ...

> I can't help but wonder with all the talk about the important of energy at the national level, why this kind of analysis is not done by one of gov. Agencies ...

This kind of thing used to be more common in the US but in the 80s various trends, from ideological privatization to increased tolerance for "gaming the system" and an increase in regulatory capture, squeezed this kind of thing out. Not completely (car models get crash testing, for instance) but, for example, FDA no longer does its own prospective research, but responds to applications from the private sector (and when it has questions, has the requestor do the research).

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#102

Post by notatoad »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

Is it possible for a (laptop + USB-C PD power charger) to support multiple charging rates? My Lenovo Legion 5 has a 300W charger. Caveats: (a) I'm not sure if that's input power or output power; and (b) it's not a USB-C PD connector , but my question isn't specific to this laptop. Airplane A/C power outlets aren't willing to deliver that much power. And even if I was willing to slow-charge the laptop on an airplane o…

the nice thing about USB-PD is that you can connect any PD-compliant charger to any PD-compliant device, and get some charge.

so even without any software or clever switches to slow-charge your laptop, if you took a USB-PD laptop that prefers a 240W charger and plugged it into your 50W tablet charger or 20W phone charger, it would charge. it would just do it a lot more slowly than witht he high-power charger.

I suspect your lenovo works the same way - if you plugged it into a 65W thinkpad X1 charger, it'd probably slow-charge your laptop.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#104

Post by crote »

jaywalk wrote: post #64
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

Technically yes, but not really. The only requirement is two $0.001 resistors on the CC lines, giving you 500mA @ 5V. You can get up to 3A @ 5V simply by measuring the voltage the charger puts on the CC lines, so that can be done in $0.05 in parts.

Getting the full 5A @ 20V experience is possible with a chip costing less than $0.50, so even that isn't too expensive.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#105

Post by gumby »

This really makes me think about use cases. Personally I want my laptop to be as light and portable as possible; some of these bricks are likely heavier than my whole laptop! When I need crunch I do it on a desktop or in the cloud (or these days "...and in the cloud"). So I edit code locally but when I press c-X c, g++ runs on some other machine.

I don't really understand why anyone would lug around an enormous and expensive boat anchor, but I'm sure they aren't idiots: they must get value from doing so, even if I can't imageine what it would be.

One thing I love about capitalism is that it's a huge parallel processing system for satisfying these different needs. If I were the central planning czar, the folks who needed the big portables would be SOL.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#106

Post by franciscop »

gorbypark wrote: post #96
phil21 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already starting, I've noticed. I've gotten a few very random devices lately they would traditionally have been powered by a custom barrel jack, that are now USB-C instead. One was a cheap light up dog collar, and I've recently picked up a soldering iron with it. I expect the trend to continue as it's likely cheaper to toss in a single USB-C port and controller chip than it is to supply a power brick. I can see…

The big problem I’ve found is a lot of “cheap” things that have usb c don’t support PD. I have some hair clippers, a flashlight, some wireless ear buds and a semi expensive electric screw driver (from Lidl!) that have usb c but only charge with a usb a to c cables. It is infuriating.

I've found connecting a usb-c to usb-a adaptor and then a usb-a to usb-c adaptor (effectively, c-to-c, but with two props) some times will trigger the traditional power deliver. Try on either end of the device.

The only two devices I have that still need it, a mouse and beard shaver, I use them irregularly enough (charge around once every few months) that this solution is good enough for me instead of having an extra plug+cable. Yes, it won't charge as fast as an actual usb-a to c cable, but for my case that's good enough.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#107

Post by woah »

_trampeltier wrote: post #49

On one side, I like the idea (and I use it a lot) with USB C to power a notebook. I have a small 65W travel adapter and I can charge my beefy HP Z-Book (it even works with a 45W adapter) or my smaller Fujitsu U939. But both notebooks still have real charging ports too and normaly I use those. A real charging port are much less fragile when moving the notebook while plugged in. USB C is very fragile and it is an very,…

I beat up a 12" macbook (the ones with only one port, a USB-C port) for years, and never had a problem with the port.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#108

Post by sowbug »

notatoad wrote: post #98
jaywalk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

there's enough cheap parts floating around now that offer standalone conversion from USB-PD to raw DC voltage. if customers are preferring USB connections, OEMs will find a way to implement it. something like this is no more difficult to implement than a barrel plug https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005315614647.html

I took a few of those USB-PD decoy boards and soldered them to some universal power jacks. Now I have a home kit that can power any legacy barrel-jack devices. I did have to label each cable with the hard-wired voltage so I don't mix them up.

Basically a DIY version of this: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804001423573.html

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#109

Post by crote »

notatoad wrote: post #102
CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

Is it possible for a (laptop + USB-C PD power charger) to support multiple charging rates? My Lenovo Legion 5 has a 300W charger. Caveats: (a) I'm not sure if that's input power or output power; and (b) it's not a USB-C PD connector , but my question isn't specific to this laptop. Airplane A/C power outlets aren't willing to deliver that much power. And even if I was willing to slow-charge the laptop on an airplane o…

the nice thing about USB-PD is that you can connect any PD-compliant charger to any PD-compliant device, and get some charge. so even without any software or clever switches to slow-charge your laptop, if you took a USB-PD laptop that prefers a 240W charger and plugged it into your 50W tablet charger or 20W phone charger, it would charge. it would just do it a lot more slowly than witht he high-power charger. I suspe…

This is not a given, though: it has guaranteed forward compatibility, not backward compatibility.

Charging a laptop from a 20W phone charger usually doesn't work because the laptop will have a minimum voltage/current requirement, but charging a phone from a 240W laptop charger will always work.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#110

Post by RunningDroid »

gorbypark wrote: post #96
phil21 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already starting, I've noticed. I've gotten a few very random devices lately they would traditionally have been powered by a custom barrel jack, that are now USB-C instead. One was a cheap light up dog collar, and I've recently picked up a soldering iron with it. I expect the trend to continue as it's likely cheaper to toss in a single USB-C port and controller chip than it is to supply a power brick. I can see…

The big problem I’ve found is a lot of “cheap” things that have usb c don’t support PD. I have some hair clippers, a flashlight, some wireless ear buds and a semi expensive electric screw driver (from Lidl!) that have usb c but only charge with a usb a to c cables. It is infuriating.

That sounds like they skipped a resistor: https://hackaday.com/2023/01/04/all-about-usb-c-resistors-an...

Someone made a fix, but it requires soldering: https://github.com/ide/usb-c-to-c-power-mod

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