This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…
A decentralized system will never work because 99% of users do not care at all; the centralized systems are easier to sign up for and use. It's been demonstrated over and over and over again. Even if the underlying tech is decentralized, the community will settle around one or a few big instances (for example, Gmail and GitHub) which often end up having significant control over the trajectory of the entire ecosystem.…
June 2023 Data Dump is missing
101–110 of 268 posts
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#102Not surprising - why would any content driven business want all of their stuff to be vacuumed up for free?
It's not really their stuff though. The content comes from the users. And part of the reason users are willing to contribute to SE is because of the licensing model and the fact that the data is available outside of SE. Obviously this is more important to some users than others, and probably some percentage don't care about it at all. It's hard to say what those percentages actually look like though. IF (and it's def…
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#103Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#104Oof. This was one of the big central tenets of SO, the reason it wasn't Experts Exchange 2.0- the escrow of the community's contributions.
That trick was to simply scroll past the paywall. They had all the answers exposed so that google would index them. It was hilarious and silly.
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#105This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…
Really? The takeaway isn’t rather that rent-seeking AI models need to figure out a way to reimburse companies and communities who’ve stored up all this capital? Seems to me SO built and delivered huge, huge amounts of value and it’s now all at risk because multibillion dollar companies are free riding.
It's not that SO has a moral right to control and profit from that content. The reality is that SO holding that content at all is a conditionally granted privilege that the community affords the site, and it is a privilege that was always designed to be revocable and the data moveable if SO started abusing its position of power as a host and trying to lock down access.
Some writing/content sites that have taken steps to restrict AI access based specifically on community request. That's a very different situation; if a community (particularly a closed or close-knit community) is collectively and (mostly) uniformly trying to avoid an AI scraping the content that they created, then good for them. There are communities online that are in that position. But "how will the company get reimbursed for our valuable asset" should not be part of that conversation. And SO in particular was set up around norms that deliberately allowed this kind of scraping. It's not their asset to protect.
> rent-seeking AI models
I have issues with modern AI economic models too but I don't think that "rent-seeking" is an accurate term to use. A better word would probably be "parasitic"; I understand (and at somewhat agree with) the argument that OpenAI is looking to repackage information it didn't create in a way that redirects attention away from the original source of information.
But I'm having a really hard time figuring out how OpenAI is hoarding a scarce asset to extract value by controlling access to that asset. The more obvious rent seeking behavior here is coming from SO, a company trying to restrict access to Creative Commons licensed content created for free by unpaid volunteers, and trying to reclassify that content as their corporate property.
I guess being as charitable as possible, I do worry about the SaaS model of many AIs that are dedicated to content generation, and I worry a little bit about AI models becoming heavily integrated into creative processes and then extracting a kind of monetary "creative tax" from artists/creators while heavily restricting what they are allowed to make. That's at least adjacent to rent seeking, but I'm still not sure it's the term I would use and I'm not convinced it's a scenario that's applicable here.
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Arguably, a model created by training on a corpus of data is a derived work of that corpus. Let's say I take a collection of images and use a program to compress them. When decompressed, the images are close to, but not exactly the same as the originals. Despite being in a different format, and despite not being exactly the same as the originals, the copyright to the compressed images is still held by whoever previou…
By this logic, isn't remembering something in your brain also a derived work? But that would not make any sense to protect until you create and distribute something based on that memory. The same logic should be applied to this.
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
So it's time to community fork?
Assuming that the linked post is accurate and that the "approval from senior leadership" to turn the dump back on does not come...then yes, I would say so. Actually there is already Codidact, although if I recall correctly they explicitly ruled out importing SE data when they started up. https://codidact.org
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#108This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#109This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…
I would say: Need to be a public resource, belonging to no-one, i.e. no person, or group, or company should have legitimacy in denying access to it. They should all be considered _trustees_ of such a resource.
> when all they did is provide the platform, and store the data.
To be fair, SE Inc. did a lot more than provide the platform. A lot of development and design work, publication, a bit of the curation work, etc. I don't like how they behave but let's give them what they're due.
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Also note the ongoing Moderator Strike (!): https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/389811/196834
Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing
#110This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…
Really? The takeaway isn’t rather that rent-seeking AI models need to figure out a way to reimburse companies and communities who’ve stored up all this capital? Seems to me SO built and delivered huge, huge amounts of value and it’s now all at risk because multibillion dollar companies are free riding.