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Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

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Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#101

Post by ulkesh »

shmatt wrote: post #27
paxys wrote: post #5

I will never understand how Reddit bungled this so badly. I'm no Harvard MBA, but here's an easier way out – instead of asking small-time app developers to pay millions, put API access contingent on the account subscribing to Reddit Premium. That way users get to keep the experience they enjoy, independent developers can keep doing their thing, Reddit gets to make up for the lost ad revenue in the form of subscriptio…

That small time developer who discussed paying millions also said it came out to $2.5/month on average[1]. Which actually isn't that bad for the service Reddit is providing One of the problems mentioned in the many Reddit threads discussing the issue about Apollo, is that its creator was selling ULTRA LIFETIME MEMBERSHIPS[2]. Yes, they were charging people money, taking it, then using a free API to deliver paying mem…

Then Reddit can and should charge that to the user directly. Not screw over app developers like this.

Perhaps you should read Christian’s post on Reddit [1] where he described, in detail, what this truly means and how he was effectively lied to by Reddit; and an interview where he states that he actually understands Reddit charging for API access — he doesn’t understand why the burden is being put on the app developers and why they didn’t give app developers considerable more time to make the adjustment with respect to their own pricing [2].

Reddit isn’t wrong for trying to monetize their API to cover service and server costs. Reddit is absolutely wrong for lying to app developers, charging an egregious amount to the app developers, and for not giving them enough time to be able to change their pricing terms and not leave developers on the hook for millions while existing pricing tiers (such as someone who paid in advance) still have months before renewal.

[1] https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_w...

[2] https://youtu.be/Ypwgu1BpaO0

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#102

Post by idlewords »

newaccount74 wrote: post #28
mmiliauskas wrote: post #6

Reddit is garbage these days anyways. Even communities that are scientific/technical seem to be toxic these days. If you want to get to a comment that has any substance regarding some topic or article, you have to scroll all the way down.

The nice thing about Reddit is that you can scroll down. Even if the top voted comments are garbage, you can just continue reading, and read answers from a very diverse audience, even if they are downvoted. It's a lot more diverse than Twitter, where it seems that only right wing bullshit is shown any more, or HN, where 90% of posters are men aged 20-40.

There is a great deal of diversity in thought on Reddit that is just banned outright by moderators. To pick a non-inflammatory example, a lot of dog subreddits will not allow any references to aversive training methods, which in their eyes include things like snapping your fingers or saying "no" in a sharp voice. What this means is you get a bunch of rival subreddits with different dogmatic beliefs, and people are banned for linking or even alluding to the existence of the others.

There are examples of this kind of strict imposition of dogma by fiat in every reddit community, on matters large and small.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#103

Post by FourHand451 »

idlewords wrote: post #84

I don't understand the point of a protest like this without some sort of concrete demand. If you're going to take down most of a popular site, you should: 1. Articulate the reason for your action 2. Explain what specific things need to happen to redress the problem I haven't seen any clear statement of (2). Am I missing something?

I think that's good advice in principle, but the practical limitation is the ability of a bunch of redditors to come to an agreement on point #2 on short notice.

Maybe they figure the implied message of "you are doing a bad thing we don't like. Don't do the bad thing" may be enough to get some change to happen, if change is a real possibility.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#104

Post by warning26 »

mg wrote: post #2

In another thread about this, someone mentioned Lemmy, a federated alternative to Reddit: https://lemmy.one/communities/listing_type/All/page/1 Looks like an interesting approach.

I wish these federated systems would put a bit more effort into the user experience.

I mean, even though you’ve directly linked to the server list (instead of their even less straightforward front page), it’s still confusing. What is a new user supposed to do with this? It’s all incredibly opaque.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#105

Post by kodt »

TheChaplain wrote: post #57
mmiliauskas wrote: post #6

Reddit is garbage these days anyways. Even communities that are scientific/technical seem to be toxic these days. If you want to get to a comment that has any substance regarding some topic or article, you have to scroll all the way down.

> Reddit is garbage these days anyways. Not really, there are a bunch of small reddits that really is a good source of information and community. E.g. r/leathercraft, r/learnmath, r/godot and so on...

Basically if the sub gets popular enough to reach the front page, you are in trouble. If it stays small, then you can still have a decent community.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#106

Post by local_crmdgeon »

mmiliauskas wrote: post #6

Reddit is garbage these days anyways. Even communities that are scientific/technical seem to be toxic these days. If you want to get to a comment that has any substance regarding some topic or article, you have to scroll all the way down.

Bardfinn is a really, really good representation of this. They're a nutter who controls a huge number of subreddits, talks like they're on a ton of speed, and bans even minor questioning of The Narrative.

Ironically she's a felon who lives in her parents basement. Probably shouldn't be moralizing.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#107

Post by bastawhiz »

savanaly wrote: post #86
bastawhiz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but to force users to use their crappy app so they can track users better That's the point: let the users pay you to make up for the (potential?) revenue you're not making from tracking them. Estimates put reddit at something like $0.25 per user. Pushing them to the official app might _generously_ triple that number. Versus the user paying $5/mo? It's a braindead business case to say that users in your official app…

One problem is the type of user who opts to pay even $5 is probably worth more than triple the average. There’s the users who have money to spend at the top and a very long tail of non-spenders at the bottom dragging that average value down.

They're hypothetically worth more in a world where they started out in the official app. In our universe where Reddit is fucking those users, they're far more likely to simply stop using Reddit altogether. And many of them will. Reddit will be lucky if they break even.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#108

Post by Eisenstein »

anonred wrote: post #97
Eisenstein wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key word here is 'on average'. Most people are not going to spend $25/year for access to a third party reddit app. That leaves the hardcore users who are going to cost the dev much more than $2.50/mo, and when ads are no longer able to be served and NSFW content is also gone where is the profit then? Putting aside the bad salesmanship and planning of selling a forever license, it is absolutely way too much money.

Third party apps are billed in aggregate each month. It’s up to them to decide how that’s split between users.

Don't move the goalposts.

Re: Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest threat to third-party apps

#110

Post by idlewords »

FourHand451 wrote: post #103
idlewords wrote: post #84

I don't understand the point of a protest like this without some sort of concrete demand. If you're going to take down most of a popular site, you should: 1. Articulate the reason for your action 2. Explain what specific things need to happen to redress the problem I haven't seen any clear statement of (2). Am I missing something?

I think that's good advice in principle, but the practical limitation is the ability of a bunch of redditors to come to an agreement on point #2 on short notice. Maybe they figure the implied message of "you are doing a bad thing we don't like. Don't do the bad thing" may be enough to get some change to happen, if change is a real possibility.

If you can't come together around even one demand, then the message your protest conveys to management is that you are momentarily upset but there is zero risk in ignoring you.
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