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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#101

Post by simondotau »

acdha wrote: post #27
JimmyAustin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing StarLink once they get laser-based relaying between satellites working.

StarLink is beholden to at least one major power and directly has business interests exposed to something like 50 more. Its mercurial owner has more obligations and does not want retaliation against his other struggling businesses. For example, if someone protests in China do you really think he’s going to risk Tesla’s investments on their behalf? Also, consider that ratio triangulation is a century-old technique. It…

We don’t need one perfect system as that is a fantasy. We need multiple systems with multiple sets of commercial interests and governance. Starlink is useful as one among multiple systems.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#102

Post by peanuty1 »

markdown wrote: post #40
nickpeterson wrote: post #5

“Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook” -Truman

Bill and Hillary Clinton. Mega-rich after decades of public service, lol.

Janet Yellen too. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/01/yellen-made-million...

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#103

Post by screye »

hackernewds wrote: post #52
anaganisk wrote: post #21

Contrary to popular belief, at least in my country (India). I feel bad for the citizens of Pakistan. There has not been a single stint of govt that has lasted peacefully since independence. A country can never grow without a peaceful transfer of power, and constant political imbalance will just not allow anything to advance. A shared history/culture with us and it's a shame our govts have differences. We fought toget…

> drifted apart is a kind way of framing "were partitioned intentionally to foment division, by the departing colonizers"

Not exactly.

The brits were to blame for process of partition (or lack there-of). The haste, wanton disregard for life, the casual approach towards the largest refugee crisis in human history was certainly avoidable. They were also to blame for further exacerbating divisions via divide-and-conquer.

But the divisions already existed. The idea of a Muslim state had had been stewing for decades in certain circles. It was inevitable.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#104

Post by n_t »

dang wrote: post #85
n_t wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please do not take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar, or any other kind of flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I appreciate your moderation. This was not flame war, I even gave well cited references for OP to read. I also never attack anyone personally, but I do want them to be more informed.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#105

Post by mlyle »

retrac wrote: post #89
mlyle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but we're not talking about Starlink. I'm talking about Othernet, which I mentioned above. It is receive only-- not an uplink. (I'm sure a tiny bit of RF leaks out of the LNB, but that could be mitigated as it is not designed for stealth).

> I'm sure a tiny bit of RF leaks out of the LNB Any receiver using the heterodyne principle (this includes most current digital radio modems) is trivially detected by its local oscillator, often to some considerable range (potentially hundreds of metres). In the UK, the BBC used to exploit this, with radio detection vans patrolling the streets for unauthorized receivers, to fine people for watching TV without a lice…

> Any receiver using the heterodyne principle (this includes most current digital radio modems) is trivially detected by its local oscillator, often to some considerable range (potentially hundreds of metres).

I'm sorry. This is not intrinsic; this is a design choice. Yes, most LOs just care about getting under legal emission masks, but there's nothing to prevent one from bringing it much lower.

Further, as I explained: the LO frequency of the LNB for the first conversion is often the exact same frequency as you'd use to downconvert digital TV broadcast.

> In the UK, the BBC used to exploit this, with radio detection vans patrolling the streets for unauthorized receivers, to fine people for watching TV without a license.

They never found anyone in a way that could be used for prosecution. "A freedom of information act has revealed that TV Detector vans have never to date provided evidence to be used in court against the TV Licence Non-payer, and have therefore never succeeded in enforcing the TV licence."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#106

Post by robocat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #65
ummonk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While imperial Britain has much to take blame for in South Asia, the partition is not really one of them. Great Britain (or rather Mountbatten on its behalf) really just acted as a third party arbiter in the partition. It was Jinnah's insistence on a separate carveout for Muslims in South Asia, together with Nehru's refusal to meet any demands for federalism, that resulted in partition. Imperial Britain had nothing t…

> While imperial Britain has much to take blame for in South Asia, the partition is not really one of them. I’m going to disagree; however little direct control they exert at that point, the imperial power always bears significant responsbility for the costs of problems that accompany imperial collapse.

The problem is when we start creating stories that place groups of people as perpetual victims, or they play that rôle themselves.

It is hard to be honest about our faults and easy to blame others. Balance that against total erasure of the past - denial is rife.

The present controls the past.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#107

Post by nine_k »

retrac wrote: post #89
mlyle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but we're not talking about Starlink. I'm talking about Othernet, which I mentioned above. It is receive only-- not an uplink. (I'm sure a tiny bit of RF leaks out of the LNB, but that could be mitigated as it is not designed for stealth).

> I'm sure a tiny bit of RF leaks out of the LNB Any receiver using the heterodyne principle (this includes most current digital radio modems) is trivially detected by its local oscillator, often to some considerable range (potentially hundreds of metres). In the UK, the BBC used to exploit this, with radio detection vans patrolling the streets for unauthorized receivers, to fine people for watching TV without a lice…

I suppose the heterodyne frequently (the 465 kHz of AM, for instance) can be effectively hidden. Put your whole receiver into a metal enclosure, have a high-pass filter before the antenna connector, and a low-pass filter before the outputs and power connectors.

Such a device would likely look peculiar enough to be easily recognizable, though, so you'll need to hide it, possibly inside some innocuous-looking other device or enclosure.

The whole setup becomes somehow more involved, but still cheap enough.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#108

Post by screye »

ourmandave wrote: post #72

Scrolling through the comments, Imran was arrested for accepting bribes worth billions while in office. Some comments say it's true, the other it's false charges. Does anybody have a credible source for what's really going on? The point of propaganda is not to make people believe it. It is to foster cynicism so that we don’t know what to believe and come to believe that nothing is true, no facts are reliable, and the…

In South Asian politics, bribes are a way of life. No one goes to prison for bribes. They go to prison, and then it's decided which bribe will be used an excuse to put them there.

Imran is currently ushering in an 'Arab Spring' style movement in Pakistan. I use that phrase with all the positive and negative connotations that go with it. The army wants to maintain dictatorial-ish control and want to do to Imran what they've done to every Pakistani leader before this. (prison /exile/assassination) But he is too popular, now riding a fundamentalist wave that he himself can't control. So the army is having to resort to increasingly contrived methods to keep Imran under control.

I'll answer the question you presumably want to ask : "who are the baddies?". Sadly, that's a question that only the future can answer.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#109

Post by retrac »

mlyle wrote: post #105
retrac wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure a tiny bit of RF leaks out of the LNB Any receiver using the heterodyne principle (this includes most current digital radio modems) is trivially detected by its local oscillator, often to some considerable range (potentially hundreds of metres). In the UK, the BBC used to exploit this, with radio detection vans patrolling the streets for unauthorized receivers, to fine people for watching TV without a lice…

> Any receiver using the heterodyne principle (this includes most current digital radio modems) is trivially detected by its local oscillator, often to some considerable range (potentially hundreds of metres). I'm sorry. This is not intrinsic; this is a design choice. Yes, most LOs just care about getting under legal emission masks, but there's nothing to prevent one from bringing it much lower. Further , as I explai…

It's not intrinsic, no. It's possible to design a receiver with its local oscillator emissions to be down to an arbitrarily low emission standard. (But who actually does that?) And not all reception techniques require a local oscillator at all. Still. My point was merely that with an average radio, which was designed to just not be harmfully interfering, such as typical satellite TV receiver? It's quite possibly lit up like a beacon if you know what to look for.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#110

Post by robocat »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #30
skeaker wrote: post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

You'd need more than an internet that could not be shut off. You'd also need an internet where communication could not be tracked. One of the most effective ways to maintain an authoritarian regime is to proactively prevent a critical mass of revolt from forming. You just need to keep a steady low volume of arrests and disappearances going for people who express discontent. If not enough people are actively expressin…

History also shows that creates instability.

Everyone knows what is going on and keeps the status quo, but a shock (often external) occurs to ignite the dry wood, and disruption erupts.

Demonstrations and riots can be healthy releases of tension in democracies. Bottle-in the regular microquakes, and you get devastating earthquakes instead.

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