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Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

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Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#101

Can this produce a static AOT compiled binary ? This seems to be currently one of the biggest limitations to Julia (and even Python) in terms of distribution, especially in the embedded space. PackageCompiler.jl helps, but binaries are still huge

How big are the binaries? (what I mean is, are they 1MB, or 100MB, or worse?)

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#102
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah funnily enough I think "no GC" would be a much better feature in Julia, which would make it a great language for real time applications.

This is not true at all! Julia usually being JIT-compiled makes it very unsuitable for real time applications (and there's no reason why it should be great for it). GC is the least issue here, and I say that as a fan and daily user of Julia.

After the 1st JIT-compilation (which here we treat as C++ static compilation), there is no compilation cost. As long as you avoid doing dynamic things (e.g. GC), there's a great case to be made for real time Julia.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#103
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah funnily enough I think "no GC" would be a much better feature in Julia, which would make it a great language for real time applications.

This is not true at all! Julia usually being JIT-compiled makes it very unsuitable for real time applications (and there's no reason why it should be great for it). GC is the least issue here, and I say that as a fan and daily user of Julia.

Julia is already being used in a number of systems with varying levels of real-time-ness. It's early days for sure, but there's a bunch of progress. It turns out lots of "real time" applications actually just need fast code. JIT compile also can be overcome since in real time systems, you generally know all the code you are going to call so you can just make a .so with all of those bits compiled and know that nothing will need to be compiled at runtime.

Also on a related topic, the PR for parallel GC in Julia just merged 4 days ago (https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/48600), so GC is in the process of getting a bunch faster.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#104

Can this produce a static AOT compiled binary ? This seems to be currently one of the biggest limitations to Julia (and even Python) in terms of distribution, especially in the embedded space. PackageCompiler.jl helps, but binaries are still huge

How big are the binaries? (what I mean is, are they 1MB, or 100MB, or worse?)

Over 150 MB for "Hello world" [1][2].

There are a few options for going smaller (e.g. StaticCompiler.jl), but they're not very mature yet.

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Julia/comments/ytegfk/size_of_a_hel...

[2]: https://discourse.julialang.org/t/standalone-hello-world-exe...

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true at all! Julia usually being JIT-compiled makes it very unsuitable for real time applications (and there's no reason why it should be great for it). GC is the least issue here, and I say that as a fan and daily user of Julia.

Julia is already being used in a number of systems with varying levels of real-time-ness. It's early days for sure, but there's a bunch of progress. It turns out lots of "real time" applications actually just need fast code. JIT compile also can be overcome since in real time systems, you generally know all the code you are going to call so you can just make a .so with all of those bits compiled and know that nothing…

> Julia is already being used in a number of systems with varying levels of real-time-ness.

Any examples you could link to?

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#106

Can this produce a static AOT compiled binary ? This seems to be currently one of the biggest limitations to Julia (and even Python) in terms of distribution, especially in the embedded space. PackageCompiler.jl helps, but binaries are still huge

How big are the binaries? (what I mean is, are they 1MB, or 100MB, or worse?)

Julia's binaries are currently 50mb to 1gb depending on what you put in them. The large floor comes from the fact that you have to ship LLVM which is around 50 MB by itself. (the 1gb binaries are if you include a couple thousand packages in the binary also).

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#107
post #88

Is there a sample or tutorial that jumps right into typical examples of what's different or special about it? I tried to find such, but the docs get lost in syntax details and other minutia. I want the ADHD-meat-and-potatoes tutorial. Maybe that's asking too much, but I did it anyhow, as any ADHDer would.

> I want the ADHD-meat-and-potatoes tutorial.

What does this mean?

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh god I hope this is not a close source language. I have spent 10+ years fighting the MATLAB ecosystem, I prefer not to spend the next 10 years fighting this thing.

Matlab existed for a reason, and has since become irrelevant, in particular in the face of python being used as a more flexible open source scientific computing scripting language. If this is closed source, it's already as irrelevant as matlab so no reason to fight it. If there are useful bits there will be python versions of them.

Strongly disagree with this statement (and agree with the parent). In many hard engineering disciplines, appropriate solvers (e.g. SuiteSparse) are barely supported, if at all (e.g. scikit-sparse only supports CHOLMOD, and UMFPACK is supported via another package).

People overestimate how many people are willing to work on the "wrap C numerical library in Python" problem. On the other hand, Mathworks employs many people to work on things like mldivide. At least in the SuiteSparse case, the first class citizen is MATLAB.

Re: Mojo – a new programming language for AI developers

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Julia is already being used in a number of systems with varying levels of real-time-ness. It's early days for sure, but there's a bunch of progress. It turns out lots of "real time" applications actually just need fast code. JIT compile also can be overcome since in real time systems, you generally know all the code you are going to call so you can just make a .so with all of those bits compiled and know that nothing…

> Julia is already being used in a number of systems with varying levels of real-time-ness. Any examples you could link to?

The coolest I know of is ASML putting Julia on their giant chip making machines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EafTuyy7apY. I think there's also work on putting Julia on satellites, but I don't have the details.
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