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Too many people take too many pills

economist.com

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Re: Too many people take too many pills

#101

Post by anjel »

fire wrote: post #95
slowmovintarget wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the toxin they put in Tylenol (to prevent abuse), you'd blow out your liver if you did that. In books, you get "chewing asprin without the water." So yes, it's dramatic, but not realistic. It's just a way of conveying through action "Ouch, that really freaking hurts."

> With the toxin they put in Tylenol (to prevent abuse) ...acetaminophen itself is what kills your liver in an overdose, there is no "toxin they put in tylenol"

Got it upside down. Acetaminophen is added to opioids to prevent rec use and abuse.

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#102

Post by birdyrooster »

quintushoratius wrote: post #82
birdyrooster wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you to say that spending your millions is foolish this way or that way? We all end up as dirt. Why not live eccentrically and take risks? It makes for a good story which you have conveniently cast as horrible. I bet that story is plenty interesting and worthwhile as is yours.

> Why not live eccentrically and take risks? Maybe because there are dependents that needed that money for school, shelter, clothing, or food. There was a story in the news recently about a guy who spontaneously gave away $200k by throwing bills out of his car window. Seemed like a feel-good story, at first. It turns out that he gave away his family's life-savings and they're now destitute.[1] Money can absolutely be…

That was exactly what I’m talking about. What an interesting story and we have only heard it from a single perspective. Imagine the stories of the people it affected, I’m sure it made someone better off.

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#103

Post by skissane »

escapedmoose wrote: post #70
asdfman123 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a fine and very important distinction to be made here. If you have a health problem, you should do your best to get exercise, eat healthy, etc. However, that doesn't mean medicines are wasteful or pointless. People often greatly benefit from them. I've struggled with ADHD, depression, and anxiety my whole life. And indeed, yes, the best treatment I've found is diet, weight training, and long-duration cardio.…

Diet/sleep/exercise/sunlight are always the first step, and if you don’t at least get those, you’ll be hard-pressed to feel decent no matter what else you do, regardless of whether you have other medication-dependent conditions. That said, there are way too many people out there who have no experience with conditions which require medication, who seem to think that those things are a substitute for medication rather…

> That said, there are way too many people out there who have no experience with conditions which require medication, who seem to think that those things are a substitute for medication rather than a baseline that must be kept up alongside medication.

It is complicated. Some people have mental health conditions which are always going to require medication. Some people have mental health conditions which are never going to require medication. And some people have mental health conditions where it depends on environmental circumstances. For that last group, lack of sleep/diet/exercise/etc can be part of the environmental circumstances which makes medication required, so fixing that can make medication less required, and may even go some way towards making it no longer required. Even if certain other things can make medication no longer required, sometimes it is still helpful in the short-to-medium term to give you the space to implement those things

> but I tend to assume that a driver to thinking this way might be the sense of safety that comes with self-righteousness

There are serious concerns about iatrogenic harm in mental health due to overdiagnosis, misdiagnosis and overprescribing. Some people who are critical of medication are approaching the issue, not from some sense of superiority, but rather from negative personal experiences with the topic, for themselves and/or family members.

Taking psychiatric medication and being critical of it are not mutually exclusive-I myself do both. Medication is the least worst thing for me right now, but I hope one day I can solve some other problems in my life and remove some stressors and I may eventually wean myself off it. And simultaneously I believe a lot of people out there are being harmed by being prescribed the wrong medications. For example, the widespread prescribing of antipsychotics to adults and children without psychosis, by prescribers who are ignorant of the risks of brain atrophy [0] and who don’t communicate those risks to patients/parents. If you have schizophrenia, those risks may be the lesser evil; if you have a kindergartener with Aspergian traits and mildly violent behaviour, I’m not convinced it is. Maybe as a last resort once you’ve exhausted every alternative, but I know clinicians for whom risperidone is their first resort for such a patient not their last

[0] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0004867418797419

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#104

Post by maleldil »

gms7777 wrote: post #93
asdfman123 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a fine and very important distinction to be made here. If you have a health problem, you should do your best to get exercise, eat healthy, etc. However, that doesn't mean medicines are wasteful or pointless. People often greatly benefit from them. I've struggled with ADHD, depression, and anxiety my whole life. And indeed, yes, the best treatment I've found is diet, weight training, and long-duration cardio.…

Yeah, as someone with ADHD, good diet, exercise, sleep, etc. are critical for managing symptoms. They're also effectively impossible to maintain consistently without medication.

> They're also effectively impossible to maintain consistently without medication.

This is key. As someone with bipolar disorder, I'm forever stuck in a cycle of stable with good habits -> episode happens -> can't keep the habits -> get worse -> medication changes/episode passes on its own -> I go back to good habits -> stable...

With mental illness you never know when it's going to act up and ruin your life, so the least you can do is use your energy - when you have it - to keep your body in a decent baseline.

Thankfully, this cycle takes many months to start again, so I live a decent life most of the time.

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#105

Post by kevviiinn »

throwaway743 wrote: post #99
Zircom wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say BPD are you referring to borderline or bipolar? Because borderline is usually treated with therapy as the first-line treatment, while meds are definitely the norm and most effective for bipolar. OPs description of his friend ruining his life by not taking his meds seems more like bipolar.

Eh, could be either really

But they are very different in their presentations

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#106

Post by seizethecheese »

JohnFen wrote: post #22
aschearer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice going, John! Role model material. What is your secret?

I have no idea. This whole thing surprised me -- I just assumed that I was "normal" in this respect. I don't have a secret, as far as I can tell. I am moderately physically active, and I do eat moderately healthy, but not exceptionally so on either count. I suspect that, rather than being a role model, I just drew a lucky number in the genetic lottery.

Being moderately active and eating moderately well may very well put you ahead of the vast majority of people.

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#107

Post by DontchaKnowit »

anjel wrote: post #101
fire wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the toxin they put in Tylenol (to prevent abuse) ...acetaminophen itself is what kills your liver in an overdose, there is no "toxin they put in tylenol"

Got it upside down. Acetaminophen is added to opioids to prevent rec use and abuse.

The confusion here is that "tylenol" in the US basically means just Acetaminophen - technically tylenol 3s have opiods, but most americans know tylenol as the over the counter tylenols, which are just acetaminophen.

In other places tylenol must mean what we think of as tylenol 3

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#108

Post by gumby »

quintushoratius wrote: post #81
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the way toothpaste ads show them squirting 3x as much paste as you actually need onto the toothbrush

That's just like how shampoo companies advise you to "lather, rinse, repeat". It's a great way to boost sales, but besides being unnecessary it's terrible for your hair, your water bill, fish living downstream, and your wallet.

> That's just like how shampoo companies advise you to "lather, rinse, repeat". It's a great way to boost sales.

It’s no accident that they code a loop with no termination condition (except the implicit emptying of the bottle). Really boosts sales!

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#109

Post by spondylosaurus »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #2

I hate these articles. While yes, this is true, it's also true that _many_ people have severe, untreated illness that they're just "toughing it out." My friend with BPD ruined his life because he's "stronger than the disorder, I don't need to take my meds" Spent millions foolishly, genius engineer - horrible story. Easily fixed.

Yeah, I don't think people realize how many conditions exist that are highly treatable now but were prolonged, miserable death sentences less than thirty years ago. Taking "too many pills" sounds bad on the face of it, but it's an infinitely better alternative than letting your intestines slowly rot inside your body or your nervous system fray itself to pieces.

Re: Too many people take too many pills

#110

Post by [deleted] »

badpun wrote: post #11
aschearer wrote: post #8

People want pills or miracle diets. People don't want lifestyle changes. They're busy, stressed, strapped for cash, and anyway they like the standard American diet. Collectively, we could shape our environment so healthy decisions are easier and unhealthy choices are harder, but we can't even agree to tax sugar. So we won't make policy changes anytime soon, and individually many of us will fail to make healthier choi…

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