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End-of-Life Dreams

commonwealmagazine.org

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Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#101

Post by ly3xqhl8g9 »

tomohelix wrote: post #21

I am as irreverent as you can probably get, in fact, if I have to say what I really think about religions in general, I am probably a blasphemer in every sense of the word. Yet I believe this article. Because even I had a spiritual experience too real for me to discredit or brush aside, and I meant it not just mentally but physically too. It didn't completely change my views about religions, but it did soften my stan…

It is nothing. It is always nothing. The "spiritual", the "religion" is always about hiding the politics in the mystery.

We didn't know we were on a planet and we believed meretricious speculators rambling on and on about the "genesis" of the sun, the moon, and the earth. We didn't know why and how were there so many kinds of animals around us and we listened to stories.

Nowadays we don't know how the brain encodes memories, how it retrieves them and replays them (memories are probably like a movie script and the brain replays them like a cinema [1]), and we don't know how this system fails to work when seriously decoupled, as in dreams, when damaged, or under psychoactive drugs. We know roughly how anaesthesia works by blocking signals, there is nothing magic in being under anesthetic drugs and waking up from anaesthesia; it's a procedure done daily thousands of times across all the hospitals in the world. Camillo Golgi showed us the neuron merely 152 years ago [2]. Give it 150 more years and all the current "mysteries" will appear more or less ridiculous.

[1] Endel Tulving, Episodic memory: from mind to brain, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11752477

[2] 'In 1871, a German anatomist Joseph von Gerlach postulated that the brain is a complex "protoplasmic network", in the form of a continuous network called the reticulum. Using his black reaction, Golgi could trace various regions of the cerebro-spinal axis, clearly distinguishing the different nervous projections, namely axon from the dendrites.', https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camillo_Golgi#Nervous_system:~....

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#103

Post by MrLeap »

rmason wrote: post #94
wishfish wrote: post #10

When my father died, he had a waking dream of this. Saw a river with all his dead family across the water. Smiling and waving. Coming to the banks. Waiting for him to cross. His last words were “Cover me in a blanket of sunshine.” He died two hours later. What’s a little remarkable to me is that he had these visions in this detail despite being lifelong blind. As I was reading the article, I kept wondering which came…

My late father had a dream where he said his brother had appeared before him beckoning him to come with him. He said I told him that I needed more time and he nodded. A few days later with all his relatives around him who flew in from all over the country we had an amazing day and he was in really good spirits. The nurses finally told us that evening we had to leave for the day so he could sleep. I was the last to le…

This is a beautiful recount.

Thank you for sharing it.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#104

Post by akomtu »

When a man dies, he feels he is waking up to a new reality, and a reality is just a shared experience. It is loss of sensory input makes us lose grip on the current reality and look for another source of sensory input, because the void of nonexistence feels worse than the worst existence. The loss of sensory input can be done in a controlled manner: by calming your thoughts and senses before sleep, by floating in a sensory deprivation tank or even by sitting in a completely dark and silent room for many days in a row. In all cases your self will find a way to gather sensory input from other sources and that will be reflected in your memories. I was a hardcore atheist once, hiding in a rock-solid fortress of arrogant scientific knowledge, but that fortress didn't survive an encounter with basic sensory deprivation.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#105

Post by dusted »

I find it very interesting. I don't doubt these experiences take place. I wonder (and suspect) if they influenced by the cultural upbringing and beliefs of the dying subjects.

What I find even more interesting is causation:

* Do these experiences arise from the brain somehow "determining/observing/knowing that the body can no longer be sustained and is indeed about to die ? What seems to talk against that, is that patients sometimes seem to get better" right before.

* Have the brain "determined" that it's time to let to of living? That is, have the dying subject come to term with their fate on such a deep level, that they are able to die ? I think this is sometimes the case.. When the body seemed physically to be able to go on for a little bit longer, and yet people die when they do. (This idea is generally frowned upon, I suspect because of unjust stigma against the willful death, we're supposed to keep fighting forever, no matter how much sense it makes.. but at some point, some of the dying probably accept their lot and let go in a peaceful way)

I don't think every death is the same in this sense, sometimes, the brains seem to WANT to continue living but are physical prevented by something like thrombus somewhere vital. Those people probably don't have the forewarning dream days before..

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#106

Post by b800h »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #101
tomohelix wrote: post #21

I am as irreverent as you can probably get, in fact, if I have to say what I really think about religions in general, I am probably a blasphemer in every sense of the word. Yet I believe this article. Because even I had a spiritual experience too real for me to discredit or brush aside, and I meant it not just mentally but physically too. It didn't completely change my views about religions, but it did soften my stan…

It is nothing. It is always nothing. The "spiritual", the "religion" is always about hiding the politics in the mystery. We didn't know we were on a planet and we believed meretricious speculators rambling on and on about the "genesis" of the sun, the moon, and the earth. We didn't know why and how were there so many kinds of animals around us and we listened to stories. Nowadays we don't know how the brain encodes m…

> It is always nothing

Classic atheistic arrogance here. Our understanding of the brain may be transformed, but had it occurred to you that when you dissect things you begin to miss the wood for the trees?

Nihilism is more absurd than any religion.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#107

Post by TriNetra »

tomohelix wrote: post #21

I am as irreverent as you can probably get, in fact, if I have to say what I really think about religions in general, I am probably a blasphemer in every sense of the word. Yet I believe this article. Because even I had a spiritual experience too real for me to discredit or brush aside, and I meant it not just mentally but physically too. It didn't completely change my views about religions, but it did soften my stan…

We're indeed product of our beliefs – both in present and afterlife. A related talk by a realized monk that you may find useful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTYb0GzQFsY

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#108

Post by jgilias »

rmason wrote: post #94
wishfish wrote: post #10

When my father died, he had a waking dream of this. Saw a river with all his dead family across the water. Smiling and waving. Coming to the banks. Waiting for him to cross. His last words were “Cover me in a blanket of sunshine.” He died two hours later. What’s a little remarkable to me is that he had these visions in this detail despite being lifelong blind. As I was reading the article, I kept wondering which came…

My late father had a dream where he said his brother had appeared before him beckoning him to come with him. He said I told him that I needed more time and he nodded. A few days later with all his relatives around him who flew in from all over the country we had an amazing day and he was in really good spirits. The nurses finally told us that evening we had to leave for the day so he could sleep. I was the last to le…

My late grandmother used to see dreams of passed away relatives long before she died, as in decades. She told that she enjoyed having a good chat with them, and that the important part is to politely decline if they want you to follow them for whatever reason, as that would mean passing away. To her all of this was just common sense. Crazy to see it validated in actual research!

Thanks for sharing your beautiful story!

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#109

Post by mejutoco »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #101
tomohelix wrote: post #21

I am as irreverent as you can probably get, in fact, if I have to say what I really think about religions in general, I am probably a blasphemer in every sense of the word. Yet I believe this article. Because even I had a spiritual experience too real for me to discredit or brush aside, and I meant it not just mentally but physically too. It didn't completely change my views about religions, but it did soften my stan…

It is nothing. It is always nothing. The "spiritual", the "religion" is always about hiding the politics in the mystery. We didn't know we were on a planet and we believed meretricious speculators rambling on and on about the "genesis" of the sun, the moon, and the earth. We didn't know why and how were there so many kinds of animals around us and we listened to stories. Nowadays we don't know how the brain encodes m…

> Give it 150 more years and all the current "mysteries" will appear more or less ridiculous.

My bet is in 150 years we will have even more questions, and maybe one or two solved ones.

Let’s look at history. If you were blind 500 years ago there was no cure. If you are blind now, while the life conditions might be better (guide dog, support from organizations) there is still no cure. We really do not know much.

Science is great, but, ironically, this blind optimism in it smells of religion. An old idea, not mine, from Nietzsche.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#110

Post by TriNetra »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #101
tomohelix wrote: post #21

I am as irreverent as you can probably get, in fact, if I have to say what I really think about religions in general, I am probably a blasphemer in every sense of the word. Yet I believe this article. Because even I had a spiritual experience too real for me to discredit or brush aside, and I meant it not just mentally but physically too. It didn't completely change my views about religions, but it did soften my stan…

It is nothing. It is always nothing. The "spiritual", the "religion" is always about hiding the politics in the mystery. We didn't know we were on a planet and we believed meretricious speculators rambling on and on about the "genesis" of the sun, the moon, and the earth. We didn't know why and how were there so many kinds of animals around us and we listened to stories. Nowadays we don't know how the brain encodes m…

Having done 8+ years of regular meditation, after getting inspired partly by an HN post [0], I can say with certainty that we're more than the body. I live with constant sensations, which are profound when I meditate. Building up from the bottom of the spine, where the kundalini is said to be sleeping in yogic scriptures for most folks.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6910041

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