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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#101
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She only got caught once, but as an ongoing thing I think it's safe to say that she stole more than once.

But did she steal more than 5k more than once. As written, you can steal $25 a million times and the law does not apply. You can steal $25 million one time and the law does not apply.

It sounds like you're equating "steal" with "be convicted of stealing"?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#102
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but Holmes didn't steal $5k more than three times. She stole millions of dollars but only did it once. So your statute doesn't apply.

Wouldnt every individual investment count as an individual instance of theft?

Is each individual investment over $5k? By letter of the law, you can steal $25 a million times, or $25 million one time, but you better not steal $5k three times.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#103
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an FSD Beta user. If you stop reading at "Full Self Driving Capability", then yes, it's an issue for a potential purchaser. But if you read just a little bit more, it becomes more clear what you're buying. I don't feel "fooled" and neither do 1000s of other Beta testers with whom I regularly communicate on Discord.

> I'm an FSD Beta user... 1000s of other Beta testers Ah, so the hundreds of thousands or millions who bought FSD years ago should be happy that a few thousand of you get to test out a system with your own lives. Great. Edit: Don't bother responding if you're a Tesla or Elon fanboy/fangirl. I'm not interested in being insulted any longer by you folks.

There are 400,000+ Beta users currently (US and Canada). You are being fooled by the headlines. The people in the EU have a legitimate beef (not being able to use the functionality). "test a system with our own lives" is silly hyperbole and you know it.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#104

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

> it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla Capability, not feature. I know that isn’t how it’s marketed. But Elon isn’t claiming he has Level 5 right now. Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort. Fraud requires knowledge and intent. You’re making a good case for a class action lawsuit, i.e. civil action. Not for putting someo…

> Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort.

Shades of Star Citizen right there.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#105
Now that the ruling has landed, it's clear she's going to prison, and her born and unborn kids have outlasted their purpose, I'm sure she's going to ship them off to whatever outsourced child supervision service she's procured for that purpose. As long as the price was good.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#106
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rationalize violent/non-violent as boundary for jail/no-jail Government has a monopoly on violence. This is a founding theory of why we have states. Furthermore, violence causes damage money can’t fix. Most non-violent crimes’ damages can be dollarised within margin.

Don't see how government's monopoly on legal violence is relevant here. Assuming bad faith by the manufacturer, how would you "dollarise" damage caused by incorrect sample analysis that caused the death of a patient ?

> how would you "dollarise" damage caused by incorrect sample analysis that caused the death of a patient

I don’t personally believe jail should be limited to violent acts for this reason. (My exceptions being corruption and fraud.)

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#107
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think it’s worst. One can be a problem of anger issues where, for a time, someone lost it and someone got punched in the face, the other is a long term thought calculated full aware of consequences and with no care for the other. It also usually results in several persons being impacted. For instance Bayer knowing that their products were contaminated with HIV still chose to sell them. Monsanto with well a…

> anger issues where, for a time, someone lost it and someone got punched in the face This merits the consideration of jail time. Nobody said automatic jail for all violence—the facts and circumstances may merit mandated therapy, for instance. But if someone refuses and keeps popping off punches, yes, the isolation prerogative of jail time takes hold.

You are right. It’s just interesting how cold thinking for crime in the corporate world can be just a big fine (even with thousands if not millions of people health are impacted and they all knew about it) but if you someone lose it on someone else it’s jail time. Again doesn’t mean he/she shouldn’t go to jail but where is any real balance with corporate crime and the free pass with money drops?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#108

I don't think she, or other non-violent criminals, should be in prison. There are much more affordable and constructive ways to handle this. This isn't rehabilitation or justice, only punishment.

You do the crime, you do the time! It's called punishment because it's a damn crime. A person who made the decision to use shoddy materials to build a building knowing it will collapse, and that building does collapse and killed thousands. So that person should be "rehabilitated"? Give me a break. A little common sense goes a long way.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#109

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

I'm an FSD Beta user. If you stop reading at "Full Self Driving Capability", then yes, it's an issue for a potential purchaser. But if you read just a little bit more, it becomes more clear what you're buying. I don't feel "fooled" and neither do 1000s of other Beta testers with whom I regularly communicate on Discord.

Don't think this is the point. Calling something Oranges, and then saying "they're not really oranges, but an approximation, but we call them oranges bc it sounds cool" is still fraudulent in my view.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#110

The news IMHO is how come she's not yet behind bars?

It's strange isn't it! Does it happen in other countries that you can negotiate when your prison sentence starts? Here in the UK, the judge passes sentence and literally "sends you down" to the cells to start it. (The holding cells in larger courts are physically below the dock where the prisoner is sentenced https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/send-dow... )

Also this rule only seems to apply to rich people. Poor people even in America go straight to prison.

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