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Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

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Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#101

Post by _hypx »

giobox wrote: post #100
_hypx wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And over a billion ICE cars... Not to mention that if you go back a handful of years, BEVs were in the same boat as FCEVs. Like I said, all of this is selective reasoning and doesn't prove anything. And you're still ignoring my point about the resource problem. We could be forced to suddenly change our minds by reality no matter what. Worth noting that something similar undermined all of the biofuel strategies of the…

> And over a billion ICE cars... The world does not sell over a billion ICE cars annually, not even close. BEVs are already over 10 percent of global annual sales by unit count, with recent studies putting last year at 1/7 sales being BEV. BEV sales grow enormously YoY at expense of ICE.

I mean in total, there are >1 billion. Annual is something like 80 million per year. The point is that BEVs do not have any kind of commanding lead. Not to mention that there's nothing stopping people from moving from BEV to FCEV. If the raw material problem rears its ugly head, existing BEV owners will simply stop buying BEVs and start buying the other kind of EV.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#102

Post by grecy »

itsoktocry wrote: post #55
grecy wrote: post #15

it will begin modernizing the site in the second quarter of 2024 Ford has said it wants the production capacity to sell 2 million EVs a year globally by the end of 2026 So Ford's stated goal is to produce the same number of EVs in 2027 that Tesla will produce in 2023.

> So Ford's stated goal is to produce the same number of EVs in 2027 that Tesla will produce in 2023. And infinity more ICE vehicles than Tesla will build in 2023. What is your point? It doesn't matter what any non-Tesla company says, the Tesla fans will say it's not enough or unattainable.

> What is your point?

My point was to show the reality of the situation. Not to say Tesla are the best (I've never even had one), but just show the state of play.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#103

Post by josefresco »

supergeek wrote: post #45
josefresco wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pace of growth is what's important now. I'll look for the numbers but I would guess that Ford is reaching early milestones quicker than Tesla. Not a knock on Tesla, just that it's a different market now.

Their own target for 2026 production capacity is 2 million EVs, actual production at that capacity will then be 2027. Tesla's current 2023 capacity is about 2 million EVs per year.

Tesla shipped 161,630 first quarter 2K3 so is the capacity there but not the sales?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#104

Post by Scoundreller »

jackmott42 wrote: post #93
Scoundreller wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can put 50k-100k miles I get that on my ICE brakes too. My secret? Engine braking and taking my foot off the gas when the light ahead is red: something nobody seems to do sadly. Are EV suspensions over-built enough to account for the extra weight they’re carrying? Imo that’s the big expense once vehicles start showing their age. Extremely dependent on road conditions though… not great in the salt belt.

No, all engineers working on EVs forgot to design suspension components strong enough for the mass of the car. At Tesla and Ford and GM they are all idiots.

I know you’re joking, but given consumer indifference to mpg but laser focus on range, I wouldn’t be surprised if weight-reduction-at-all-costs took a front row seat for EVs.

Auto engineers work first for the marketing department. And range sells.

Few buyers run a “10 year TCO and then residual value” calculation.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#105

Post by r00fus »

itsoktocry wrote: post #52
boc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

> Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. If people really cared about acceleration, why would they buy standard versions of the Model 3/Y (which outsell performance versions)? It's quick, but there are cheaper vehicles that outperform it 0-60.

Dude I have a Ford Focus EV and I can go toe to toe with anything short of a muscle car. It's almost even better than a Tesla because it's a sleeper.

A standard Tesla accelerates about 2x as fast as my econobox.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#106

Post by bryanlarsen »

phpisthebest wrote: post #92
bryanlarsen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before 2030 we'll be seeing $7500 rebates on $15000 cars. That's a pretty strong mandate. Also, this proposed EPA rule is an even stronger mandate: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/08/climate/biden-electric-ca...

There is zero chance the manufacturing environment can move that fast. I know I work in it. The government can place all the magic words on the page they want, there are structural limits to how fast mines, plants, and other things can be built, even if Ford, GM, VW etc can switch their factories to EV's there is an entire supply chain that can not spin up that fast. Copper and Lithium production alone would need to…

So you're saying that production capacity of electric cars is going to slow down their growth? EV production capacity increased by ~5 million per annum last year (4 million of that in China).

Current rate of production growth means 60% EV's in 2027.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#107

Post by bmelton »

sbaiddn wrote: post #94
Scoundreller wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can put 50k-100k miles I get that on my ICE brakes too. My secret? Engine braking and taking my foot off the gas when the light ahead is red: something nobody seems to do sadly. Are EV suspensions over-built enough to account for the extra weight they’re carrying? Imo that’s the big expense once vehicles start showing their age. Extremely dependent on road conditions though… not great in the salt belt.

Hehe, when I got my brakes done the mechanic assumed I was getting my third set. I told him they were my second set. He chuckled and said: "I guess you know how to use the down-shifter"

Doesn't it make more sense to put the wear on your (cheap, easily replaceable) brakes than the (expensive, harder to replace) clutch though?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#108

Post by [deleted] »

Alupis wrote: post #21
phpisthebest wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lot of F-150 buyers that want a good Electric Truck... The F-150 Lightening has a strong launch, and reservation order book... then the actual truck came out and they burned alot of good will with the Community by rushing it to market with poor performance, poor battery tech, etc. The F-150 Lightening was a BAD first showing for Ford, and it will be hard for them to recover from it with F150 owners.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

[deleted]

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#109

Post by sbaiddn »

bmelton wrote: post #107
sbaiddn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe, when I got my brakes done the mechanic assumed I was getting my third set. I told him they were my second set. He chuckled and said: "I guess you know how to use the down-shifter"

Doesn't it make more sense to put the wear on your (cheap, easily replaceable) brakes than the (expensive, harder to replace) clutch though?

Manual tranny - blip the throttle before downshifting

Auto tranny - downshift on the crest of the hill (Inlive in a very hilly area. Otherwise I don't bother)

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#110

Post by pornel »

rootusrootus wrote: post #30
Alupis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types of F-150 buyers - those who enjoy the idea of having a truck and those who use a truck. F-150 Lightning seems to fulfill nearly ever checkbox wishlist item for the first group... but not much for the second group. I wager we'll see a lot more Lightnings driving around urban/suburban areas than rural or jobsites.

> There are two types of F-150 buyers The F-series isn't the most popular vehicle in America because there are only two types of buyers. Roughly, the answer to "who is a truck person?" is "everyone."

This is so weird from a non-American perspective. Almost all of these luxury truck-shaped vehicles never see a speck of dirt, and are used to carry one person and maybe a grocery bag.

People drive every day in oversized vehicles with dangerously poor visibility just because they might need to carry a larger item once in a while, even though their crew cab models have barely more cargo space than hatchback. Not to mention that large items can be ordered with delivery, and trucks/vans can be rented for occasional use.

Even for work purposes pickup trucks seem niche. The pickup form factor offers less carrying capacity than a same-length van, less flexibility in using the same space for carrying both people and cargo, and has worse options for secure storage.

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