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We Need To Talk About Vercel

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Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#101

Post by solatic »

Rauchg wrote: post #32
solatic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, regarding setting cache-control headers, it's a professional tool, and it's going to be possible to shoot yourself in the foot with it. The approach to try to reduce that is to have a UI that asks people, "hey are you sure you want to do this potentially dangerous thing? It just result in these unintended consequences", but yes, ultimately allow people to do it. Otherwise, you're not letting people use what the…

Totally, I don't like surprising behaviors either. At the time we made that decision the `CDN-Cache-Control` proposal didn't exist, so it was a tricky spot. There also really wasn't a UI opportunity in this case (although one thing we thought about was a setting to control it and turn off the Vercel override).

> There also really wasn't a UI opportunity in this case

Why, because the configuration is set in a text file and not in the UI?

You could send an automatic email to the account holder with the warning whenever someone adds a foot-gun cache-control setting, with the ability to turn off the email by setting a different configuration flag to true or by checking a flag in the UI.

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#102

Post by oefrha »

explaininjs wrote: post #96
oefrha wrote: post #13

Slightly related: Netlify has/had an even bigger problem around caching, and not just caching. I set `cache-control: public,max-age=2592000,immutable` on my SPAs' assets as they're hashed and should be immutable. But Netlify somehow doesn't atomically swap in a new version: say my index.html referenced /assets/index.12345678.js before and is updated to reference /assets/index.87654321.js instead, there's a split seco…

I wonder if somehow the request got handled by two different edge workers that were desynchronized? I’ve seen it happen in busy areas (NYC, etc.) where a single client will hit many Workers in a session whereas when connecting from a rural area I’ve never observed that. Regardless, I say the solution is fat index files. Is there any tangible benefit to the long held tradition of separating the structure from the func…

I mostly use Vite nowadays, so my bundle is usually automatically split into a vendor.js and an index.js. The vendor bundle for dependencies is large (usually 50-200KB brotli'ed for my popular side projects) and rarely changes. The index.js containing only my code is usually smaller and changes on every build. With a fat index everything has to be downloaded on every change. Most people don't care these days but I try to make the experience nice even for people with really shitty connections.

In addition, fat index files are really bad for multi-page apps.

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#103

Post by brillout »

iamsaitam wrote: post #94
brillout wrote: post #92

Open alternative to Next.js: https://vite-plugin-ssr.com/ (I'm its author). Open: - Choose any UI framework you want (React/Vue/Solid/...) - A lot more flexible than Next.js (e.g. i18n and base assets configuration are fundamentally more flexible) - Keep architectural control (vite-plugin-ssr is more like a library and doesn't put itself in the middle of your stack) - Use your favorite tools. And manually integrate t…

Even though you go on explaining what you mean by "open", seeing that the common definition is "open (source)", I'd go for a different qualifier.

Yea, we've plans to improve communicating that. (Although we do plan to stick to the word "open".)

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#104

Post by brillout »

3np wrote: post #100
iamsaitam wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though you go on explaining what you mean by "open", seeing that the common definition is "open (source)", I'd go for a different qualifier.

It's available under MIT License hosted on GitHub. Am I missing something? https://github.com/brillout/vite-plugin-ssr/blob/main/LICENS...

I think parent means that both Next.js and vite-plugin-ssr are open source, so "open(-source)" isn't a differentiator.

I agree although we think we can keep the word "open" and make it clear that we're takling about being a "open framework" (and not only open source).

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#105

Post by 3np »

leerob wrote: post #30
flimsypremise wrote: post #28

My sense of Vercel (mostly from working with NextJS) is that they are more interested in appearing to support an open source framework while making their product as difficult to interoperate with other technologies as possible in an attempt to lock users into their platform and hopefully pay for it.

Hey, I'm on the team at Vercel. What could we do better? Open to your feedback. Our platform integrates with 30+ frameworks ( https://vercel.com/docs/frameworks ), we directly fund the development of Next.js and Svelte, and we sponsor Nuxt, Astro, Solid, and more.

A more sane release lifecycle and release communication.

When a major version bump with a host of breaking changes drops, we'd prefer to be able to stay on the superseded version and still receive bug fixes for at least some time, with expectations set for what that timeline looks like.

The last releases of v11 (v11.1.1~v11.1.4) lack release information/changelog, and the CI still looks failing for Mac and Windows on v11.1.4 without this being acknowledged.

The final release of v12 was 1 month after v13.0.0. The last few releases of v12 similarly lack release info or changelog. You could say "just look at the git history" but the Nextjs git log really doesn't lend itself well for it (unless you're already a dev on the Nextjs codebase or used to code-auditing, I guess).

For a "foundational" (that's what you aim for it to be, right?) software like Next.js, users should be able to have similar expectations to versioning, releasing, and documentation as Vercel is relying on for Nodejs.

Younger devs follow what the leaders in the ecosystem do, which is how trends and norms rise and change. If Vercel changed its approach here it could contribute to setting a good example instead of showing that maintenance as an afterthought is nbd bro, why don't you update already!

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#106

Post by incrudible »

adrr wrote: post #18
compumike wrote: post #4

> Most of remotejobs.org is already hosted on a VPS and so in my case I'll move the web pieces there with a CDN like Cloudflare in front of it. You probably don’t even need a CDN at all.

Remote Jobs seems to be a content driven site. Why wouldn't it want all that content on the edge?

Why would it?

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#107

Post by brillout »

flimsypremise wrote: post #51
leerob wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I'm on the team at Vercel. What could we do better? Open to your feedback. Our platform integrates with 30+ frameworks ( https://vercel.com/docs/frameworks ), we directly fund the development of Next.js and Svelte, and we sponsor Nuxt, Astro, Solid, and more.

I'd say one of the big annoyances I've encountered while building applications with the last few versions of NextJS is the increasingly tight integration with the built-in server. The world of Node servers is pretty well-established, with documented interfaces that the major server platforms all implement and support. Simple stuff like res and req in the context and what those objects contain. With each release NextJ…

Seems like you may appreciate https://vite-plugin-ssr.com/ (I'm its author).

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#108

Post by vsl »

conradfr wrote: post #75
lolinder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you must have missed that the first post is a replacement of the actual feature request that someone submitted. I have no dog in this fight, but it's pretty slimy to respond to someone's request by overwriting it with your explanation. They effectively hijacked the requester's name, profile picture, and who knows how many upvotes to push their own message instead of letting them have their say and, you know,…

Does the edit menu appear on mobile? I only see it in desktop mode.

It doesn’t.

Re: We Need To Talk About Vercel

#110

Post by neurostimulant »

satvikpendem wrote: post #97
Kevcmk wrote: post #38

Vercel is deceitful. The Image/img fiasco really pulled the covers off for vercel for me. I have migrated all my work off of the platform. NextJS’ lint strategically dissuades you from using the img tag in favor of the NextJS Image component. If you make the mistake of heeding this advice and migrating to it, you can’t use static site generation—which means you are stuck using their hosting. Here’s one of the most PR…

You don't have to use their hosting. I use their NextJS Docker container on Hetzner and it works just fine.

Does the tag work with the docker container? GP's issue is with how vercel was pushing the tag a lot yet it doesn't work when in static site generation mode which is used by a lot of people.
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