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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#101

Post by Taek »

rtpg wrote: post #92
nonethewiser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the SEC won’t identify the alleged security then I think it’s different than what you’d characterize. The SEC should have a more collaborative spirit and share so that Coinbase can follow regulations or make their case. If the SEC is actually withholding this information they are acting in bad faith and operating more like a mob shaking someone down.

If I had to guess, the SEC is actually saying "you are offering many products, and _way too many of them_ are securities. We will not list them all because it would be way too much work. We will not list one because we don't want you to overfit on the example. We want you to actually do the analysis across all of your products". I have to imagine the SEC and Coinbase are in fact talking directly on a more off the rec…

The entire crypto industry has spent billions of dollars on compliance and the effective opinion of all the lawyers is "there's not enough guidance, anything you do that touches a token carries potential liability, and the SEC is refusing to lay down any sort of rules for what a compliant token looks like"

Coinbase has plenty of lawyers and legal budget and would happily do an analysis if sufficient guidance actually existed to complete an analysis.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#102

Post by adastra22 »

codehalo wrote: post #77
adastra22 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be relevant? It happened, that’s all that matters. Edit: the context of this is the question of whether Ethereum is a security. The SEC has already ruled that it is, and the ruling came down to the fact that it had a presale (via the Howey test).

It's not clear yet that the SEC has any jurisdiction over cryptocurrencies. At this point, their rulings are empty, and perhaps it will be decided in court.

They have jurisdiction over securities. Things like the Howey test are used to determine if something is a security. Ethereum meets that bar. Whether bitcoin is a security isn’t so clear. Not by the Howey test at least.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#104

Post by skybrian »

user3939382 wrote: post #84

The banks, which control the government, aren’t going to allow some private company or protocol to replace their control of money.

The government controls the banks in much the same way they’re attempting to control Coinbase. You don’t ask the SEC what’s legal, you’re supposed to hire lawyers that are good at predicting what government regulators will approve of and do what they say.

If a bank does something that regulators don’t much like then they’ll shut it down rather than trying to save it. (As happened with the crypto-friendly banks.)

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#105

Post by codehalo »

adastra22 wrote: post #102
codehalo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear yet that the SEC has any jurisdiction over cryptocurrencies. At this point, their rulings are empty, and perhaps it will be decided in court.

They have jurisdiction over securities. Things like the Howey test are used to determine if something is a security. Ethereum meets that bar. Whether bitcoin is a security isn’t so clear. Not by the Howey test at least.

> Ethereum meets that bar.

Some argue otherwise. That will need to be determined in the courts or congress, not by a regulatory bully.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#106

Post by 8note »

Taek wrote: post #101
rtpg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess, the SEC is actually saying "you are offering many products, and _way too many of them_ are securities. We will not list them all because it would be way too much work. We will not list one because we don't want you to overfit on the example. We want you to actually do the analysis across all of your products". I have to imagine the SEC and Coinbase are in fact talking directly on a more off the rec…

The entire crypto industry has spent billions of dollars on compliance and the effective opinion of all the lawyers is "there's not enough guidance, anything you do that touches a token carries potential liability, and the SEC is refusing to lay down any sort of rules for what a compliant token looks like" Coinbase has plenty of lawyers and legal budget and would happily do an analysis if sufficient guidance actually…

Isnt it obvious? A compliant token is a security.

Trying to play games to make them not securities is where crypto's lawyers are going wrong

Crypto is looking for a hack that can make their stuff not securities, and the SEC isn't playing along

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#107

Post by awb »

rtpg wrote: post #92
nonethewiser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the SEC won’t identify the alleged security then I think it’s different than what you’d characterize. The SEC should have a more collaborative spirit and share so that Coinbase can follow regulations or make their case. If the SEC is actually withholding this information they are acting in bad faith and operating more like a mob shaking someone down.

If I had to guess, the SEC is actually saying "you are offering many products, and _way too many of them_ are securities. We will not list them all because it would be way too much work. We will not list one because we don't want you to overfit on the example. We want you to actually do the analysis across all of your products". I have to imagine the SEC and Coinbase are in fact talking directly on a more off the rec…

> If I had to guess, the SEC is actually saying "you are offering many products, and _way too many of them_ are securities. We will not list them all because it would be way too much work. We will not list one because we don't want you to overfit on the example. We want you to actually do the analysis across all of your products".

But to issue a Wells notice shouldn’t they have already performed this research? Seems like both parties benefit by saying something like:

Products with X, Y or Z characteristics as defined by Laws 1, 2 & 3 are securities, including but not limited to products A, B and C, etc.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#108

Post by 8note »

yokem55 wrote: post #45
cududa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not an expert or a lawyer but it seems pretty clear. Going by what the SEC has literally told them: Coinbase taking money from depositors, loaning it out, and giving the depositors interest from the loan, is a security product. Page 1 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/COMPS-1885/pdf/COMPS-188... It… really doesn’t seem complicated. The SEC told Coinbase they’d be in viola…

When it comes to the staking side of things - Coinbase's position is that they are simply providing a technical service to their customers to do something that their customer's could do themselves. There isn't a borrower that Coinbase is lending the coins to. It is a protocol that locks them up. Where this gets messy is with things like Eth when they stake amounts less then 32 Eth from a customer, which inherently me…

Isn't it quite simple? Apply the Howey test. Very obviously yes. Both pooling and non-pooling are securities

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#109

Post by awb »

TylerE wrote: post #67
nonethewiser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the SEC won’t identify the alleged security then I think it’s different than what you’d characterize. The SEC should have a more collaborative spirit and share so that Coinbase can follow regulations or make their case. If the SEC is actually withholding this information they are acting in bad faith and operating more like a mob shaking someone down.

Or coin base could actually hire and listen to them like a business trying to operate legitimately and honestly. Instead it’s the usual crypto playbook of “move fast and break things” and then play dumb.

It’s the Uber playbook. Expand faster than regulators can keep up.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#110

Post by josh2600 »

Regulation is a public-private partnership.

Most companies in crypto want to be regulated but haven’t been able to reach a shared plateau of understanding with the SEC.

One way or another, we’re going to end up with regulation soon.

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