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Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

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Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#101

Post by myself248 »

amyjess wrote: post #59

This is worrying since I have accidently opened dev tools hundreds of times by clicking both mouse buttons when my cursor is near the bottom of the screen. I have a tic disorder (not Tourette's, because my tics are all nonverbal). One of my tics is that I mash both mouse buttons over empty space pretty frequently. I even go out of my way to keep my cursor positioned over empty space so I can mash the mouse buttons wh…

Likewise I hit F12 all the damn time because I'm aiming for the Home key, which is undersized on my keyboard, and they're right next to each other.

Great, now I need to wait 8 seconds while my browser re-renders some 40-meg page which could've been plain text.

On the other hand, if I ever think about using MailChimp to send spam, I hope someone would just come cut my hands off, then I won't need to care about hitting the wrong keys.

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#102

Post by sam0x17 »

amyjess wrote: post #59

This is worrying since I have accidently opened dev tools hundreds of times by clicking both mouse buttons when my cursor is near the bottom of the screen. I have a tic disorder (not Tourette's, because my tics are all nonverbal). One of my tics is that I mash both mouse buttons over empty space pretty frequently. I even go out of my way to keep my cursor positioned over empty space so I can mash the mouse buttons wh…

I regularly instruct users to open dev tools to clear their site-specific cookies because there doesn't seem to be a way of doing this without clearing _all_ cookies anymore other than in Dev Tools > Application

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#103

Post by kevincox »

iudqnolq wrote: post #86
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or have it open before you visit the page. Assuming they are detecting a resize. But if they really detect a resize, anyone who actually does resize their page will be blocked as well. Doing that seems a bit insane to me.

Almost everyone resizes windows by manually dragging the corner. This will generate a series of resize events rather than a single jump. This is a real technique, but it tends to be used by shady piracy sites that want to stop piracy of their pirated contents. There's another cute approach based on the fact console.log(foo) calls foo.toString if and only if the devtools is open.

I could open the history or bookmarks panel in Firefox and get an instant resize. Or click + to snap the browser to the side of my screen.

It seems that this would create far too many false positives.

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#104

Post by temp12192021 »

pupppet wrote: post #17

I had to use their silly drag-and-drop email builder because I'm handing the email off to be edited by a non-dev. I dropped in a "Code" module so I could add some custom CSS but because a style tag generates no space, that module is no longer accessible via the UI as there's nothing to click on. So I thought oh brother I'll just inject a couple br tags via the Inspector and then poof, I'm in the doghouse.

https://sindresorhus.com/devtools-detect/

https://github.com/sindresorhus/devtools-detect

EDIT: doesn't seem to work if I have devtools as a separate window

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#107

Post by dylan604 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #100

https://mailchimp.com/about/security/#Protecting_Ourselves_A... >Yes, you heard that correctly. We can secure ourselves like Fort Knox, but if your computer gets compromised and someone gets into your Mailchimp account, that's not good for either of us. So mailchimp is SOC2, ISO, PCI, etc. and still gets worried about themselves if a user account is hacked.

reading further down that page...

"We retain a law firm in the UK to consult on EU privacy issues."

wouldn't it be better to retain a law firm that's actually in the EU? hiring a UK law firm for EU matters is no different that hiring a US law firm, or AUS, or whatever non-EU country

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#108

Post by JohnBooty »

javajosh wrote: post #83
eminent101 wrote: post #55

Isn't this spying on the user without user's consent? Me opening dev tools to view the source is a private activity. Is it okay to collect this kind of info and use it to block access? Are there no regulations against this?

> Isn't this spying on the user without user's consent? Yes. > Is it okay to collect this kind of info and use it to block access? No. It's not okay. > Are there no regulations against this? Probably not. In this case the remedy is to just use another service, or DIY. And I also think that's a pretty reasonable remedy, which will send a message to others considering such actions. FWIW I would like to see regulations…

I'm not defending MailChimp (this devtools thing is pretty awful) but "just DIY it" is a bit glib. DIY'ing what MailChimp provides is... a lot.

I wrote a sort of "DIY MailChimp" for a marketer back in the ancient days of the early 2000s. I did the tracking and email content bits.

I did not handle the email servers themselves. Lot of work staying off of blacklists. It was something close to a fulltime job back then, and from what folks have told me it might be more like multiple fulltime jobs these days. Lots of anti-spam regulations to adhere to, and one or two false steps and you're going to wind up in an absolute hell where other email providers (Yahoo, Gmail, whoever) are not going to talk to your servers.

Also need to figure out email templates that render consistently across webmail providers and browsers and mail clients. That is also a loooot.

Making a consumer-friendly UI like Mailchimp is another massive task, but I guess you can skip that for your "DIY" solution.

Again, I'm not defending Mailchimp. I hope I never have to dip my toes into this area again. It is hell.

Re: Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools

#109

Post by jkaplowitz »

dylan604 wrote: post #107
1970-01-01 wrote: post #100

https://mailchimp.com/about/security/#Protecting_Ourselves_A... >Yes, you heard that correctly. We can secure ourselves like Fort Knox, but if your computer gets compromised and someone gets into your Mailchimp account, that's not good for either of us. So mailchimp is SOC2, ISO, PCI, etc. and still gets worried about themselves if a user account is hacked.

reading further down that page... "We retain a law firm in the UK to consult on EU privacy issues." wouldn't it be better to retain a law firm that's actually in the EU? hiring a UK law firm for EU matters is no different that hiring a US law firm, or AUS, or whatever non-EU country

While that is true in the sense that the UK is no longer in the EU, I don't believe UK law has yet diverged from EU law on any relevant privacy issues, so UK firms would still have significant experience in this area. A firm within the EU would be a better choice, I agree.
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