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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#101

Post by Forgeties79 »

vehemenz wrote: post #84
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

People—and not just "elites"—actually go to college to learn things. This is way too cynical/contrarian of a take. Attend more actual college, read less Howard Zinn.

Yeah, I really don’t like the above take either. I have a history degree, and I’ve done very well for myself at a tech company. The writing and critical thinking skills I acquired have given me a huge leg up over more “technically minded” people in many situations (though I would never go as far as to say they wasted their time or I always have an advantage. It’s case by case, like most things in life).

He’s basically doing the “kids go to college and get a useless English degree” line that many boomers throw around, just with different window dressing.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#103

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#104

Post by sircastor »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought.

I think this is one of the more valuable components of attending university - in part just because it exposes one to more people, from more diverse backgrounds. It encourages you to see the world from more than one perspective, and to (I hope) be able to understand and be more compassionate about others.

There is a segment of people (in the US at least) that don't want kids to go to college for exactly this reason - they don't want their kids, or other young people to be exposed to or trained in critical thinking and broad perspectives.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#105

Post by InvaderFizz »

truetraveller wrote: post #71
InvaderFizz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my degree at 35 because of this. Not that I actually learned much of anything in the program, I was there purely for the paper. This is where schools like WGU excel for those of us just seeking credentials for what we already know. The terms are six months, you can do as many courses as you want during that six months. Over half the courses are just a final exam. You take a pre-test on day one of the course. If…

Did you do WGU? How long did getting a degree take start to finish? Did you have pre-credits?

I did go to WGU. It took me way too long. Over 4 years because I put almost zero effort in and did most everything at the end of the 6 month term. I wasn't much motivated to do the courses as I was battling depression, dealing with a wife and child with health issues, and was the sole breadwinner.

I would estimate that I put in less than 500 hours total towards my degree. I had like 15 pre-credits.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#106

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #32
hotpotamus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those is not like the other in that it requires extensive college. It also happens to be the one that pays more than the others.

Being a high-end plumber doesn't take much college. I joke, but most lawyers actually don't make a ton of money. Like programming, the profession is very bimodal. By the time you get out of law school, unless that law school is a big name like Harvard or you get a good clerkship or associate job, you will be heading for a career that tops out at $200k/year if you don't burn out in the mean time. Plumbing, electrical…

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#107

Post by helsinki »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
throwaway6734 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many trades will be much more protected against AI gains as well

Indeed! LLMs ain't gonna be performing electrical, plumbing, earthwork, welding, or carpentry anytime soon. If anything, its going to flush out the bullshit jobs while the economy is in a position to reward those performing higher value work.

This assumes there will be people that can afford to pay them for their work...

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#108

Post by tempsy »

hgsgm wrote: post #86
tempsy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i wouldn’t say that. i just think if you go to a lower ranked school your path to career success more so relies on getting a technical degree but yes you shouldn’t be studying liberal arts at a no name school.

That's what parent&thread said. Technical trade was mentioned as a category

yes i know. i’m just clarifying for the above comment that all lower ranked colleges are not worth attending

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#109

Post by kdmccormick »

zabzonk wrote: post #21
Ericson2314 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the person did not have a successful art career doesn't mean they aren't and artist and didn't become a better one.

of course, anyone can be an artist (or not). my point is that you don't have to spend $80K to potentially fail in becoming one. interesting to see that talent might beat out education is no longer an idea here

Talent beating out education is OBVIOUSLY still an idea here, you're just asking disingenuous, leading questions.

Is $80k on its own supposed to turn a non-artist into an artist? No, nobody is saying that. You need to be talented to get admitted in the first place.

Would $80k lead to lessons, connections, and experiences that could make an artist's career more successful? Quite possibly. Or not. It's a risky investment: you pay a lot, and maybe it pays off, maybe you break even, maybe you end up behind.

I'm not defending the >$80k price tag of art school. I'm saying that it's not irrational for a budding artist to see it as worth the gamble.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#110

Post by throwaway4aday »

azinman2 wrote: post #75
xyzelement wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are referring to something on one hand very valuable, on the other hand it's very easy to graduate college without learning that, and I think colleges themselves in recent decades are pivoting away from. A hundred+ years ago when "almost nobody" went to college, college was a place for those hungry and willing to sacrifice for intellectual growth. Nowadays college is a baseline consumer good that "almost…

Re: critical analysis. I agree with you that inconvenient truths now get muzzled because they don’t fit an acceptable meta-narrative. This is very problematic for society and when taken to the maximum, can lead to thinks like Cambodia’s attempt at restarting society by killing all those who didn’t fit the model they were looking for. > If that's what you are hungry for, college is perhaps even your least likely bet.…

Arguably, the Cambodian people could have potentially avoided the genocidal deaths of millions of people by analyzing the weaknesses of the Soviet/Communist culture, weaknesses that repeatedly lead to mass death. Seems pretty meaningful and deserving of study to me.
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