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SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

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Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#101

Post by luckylion »

jen20 wrote: post #100
luckylion wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Amazon ships you a product with UPS. UPS notifies Amazon that their driver has eaten the package and they're very sorry. Amazon ships out a new package. The new package, provided the driver doesn't eat it, will arrive delayed. But Amazon didn't delay it, nor do they "have to" delay sending packages. "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to"…

> But Amazon didn't delay it Yes, they did by their choice if provider. Services are end to end, you don’t get to pass off responsibility for things like that.

No, generally we only consider active choices to be something someone chose to do. If UPS had a history of drivers eating every other package, you might argue that it's a risk that's baked in, but they don't.

And neither did this bank have a history of breaking down.

If your car is on fire and then explodes, nobody would say "jen20 had to detonate their car", because it implies that you pushed a button to make it explode. "Well, they could have known that that brand of cars has a 1 in 1000000000 chance of blowing up, so they did it by choice of car" isn't something you'll hear.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#102

Post by mtillman »

ummonk wrote: post #32

The article headline is clickbait. They're immediately doing payouts through JP Morgan Chase now; the only delay is because some payouts were in flight when they got stuck in SVB, so if a payout was started via SVB a few days ago and was going to arrive today (because bank transactions aren't instantaneous), the new payouts will take a few days to arrive via JP Morgan Chase.

Rippling’s EPO service is technically an employer however and D&O doesn’t cover missed payroll. If they miss a payroll due to this, it’ll be on their EPO board to cover the cost no?

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#103

Post by jen20 »

luckylion wrote: post #101
jen20 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Amazon didn't delay it Yes, they did by their choice if provider. Services are end to end, you don’t get to pass off responsibility for things like that.

No, generally we only consider active choices to be something someone chose to do. If UPS had a history of drivers eating every other package, you might argue that it's a risk that's baked in, but they don't. And neither did this bank have a history of breaking down. If your car is on fire and then explodes, nobody would say "jen20 had to detonate their car", because it implies that you pushed a button to make it exp…

If I order a package from Amazon, and it doesn’t show up on time and in the condition, I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship. A longer supply chain does not mean the divestiture of responsibility.

Note I am NOT suggesting that every package must arrive on time, just that when they do not, it is Amazon who must perform the service recovery rather than a delivery company.

That is no different in this case.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#104

Post by luckylion »

jen20 wrote: post #103
luckylion wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, generally we only consider active choices to be something someone chose to do. If UPS had a history of drivers eating every other package, you might argue that it's a risk that's baked in, but they don't. And neither did this bank have a history of breaking down. If your car is on fire and then explodes, nobody would say "jen20 had to detonate their car", because it implies that you pushed a button to make it exp…

If I order a package from Amazon, and it doesn’t show up on time and in the condition, I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship. A longer supply chain does not mean the divestiture of responsibility. Note I am NOT suggesting that every package must arrive on time, just that when they do not, it is Amazon who must perform the service recovery rather than a delivery company. That is no d…

> I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship

Totally. But you wouldn't say that "Amazon chose to delay my package", you'd say "my package got delayed, UPS should really make sure not to use that package-eating driver or Amazon should stop using UPS".

"Amazon delayed my package" = "Amazon intentionally delayed my package so that it doesn't arrive on time". "My Amazon package got delayed" = "The package got delayed, but no intention is implied or expected". In both cases it's on Amazon to get you your package, but in one case Amazon is after you and is intentionally holding back packages instead of shipping them to you.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#105

Post by sokoloff »

jjulius wrote: post #56
ummonk wrote: post #32

The article headline is clickbait. They're immediately doing payouts through JP Morgan Chase now; the only delay is because some payouts were in flight when they got stuck in SVB, so if a payout was started via SVB a few days ago and was going to arrive today (because bank transactions aren't instantaneous), the new payouts will take a few days to arrive via JP Morgan Chase.

>The article headline is clickbait. Oh? Okay, let's see, it starts with... >SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts... And then you said... >The only delay is because... So, two sentences later you've confirmed the headline's accuracy yourself.

Sometimes banks really do hate #7. Sometimes you really won’t believe #11.

Accuracy alone is not an ironclad defense against clickbait.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#106

Post by bostik »

jen20 wrote: post #103
luckylion wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, generally we only consider active choices to be something someone chose to do. If UPS had a history of drivers eating every other package, you might argue that it's a risk that's baked in, but they don't. And neither did this bank have a history of breaking down. If your car is on fire and then explodes, nobody would say "jen20 had to detonate their car", because it implies that you pushed a button to make it exp…

If I order a package from Amazon, and it doesn’t show up on time and in the condition, I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship. A longer supply chain does not mean the divestiture of responsibility. Note I am NOT suggesting that every package must arrive on time, just that when they do not, it is Amazon who must perform the service recovery rather than a delivery company. That is no d…

Funny, I usually blame the courier first. Some have an established track record of delaying deliveries, or claiming that they tried to deliver but nobody was at home. (I call the latter the "Finnish post office" strategy.) Repeat offenders get punished by not having business in the future. Eventually.

However, you are right from a customer's perspective. A third party cock-up is not an excuse - it may not be your fault, but it still is your problem.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#107

Post by [deleted] »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #38
ummonk wrote: post #32

The article headline is clickbait. They're immediately doing payouts through JP Morgan Chase now; the only delay is because some payouts were in flight when they got stuck in SVB, so if a payout was started via SVB a few days ago and was going to arrive today (because bank transactions aren't instantaneous), the new payouts will take a few days to arrive via JP Morgan Chase.

So people are not receiving their promised money on time? Sounds like the title is accurate. Not everyone has the float to handle an unexpected delay in money. People can also suffer liquidity events.

[deleted]

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#108

Post by alasdair_ »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #86
HarryHirsch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off to the Department of Labour, they won't look kindly on late paychecks.

If it was a single company, then it might help. But this is likely to affect hundred if not thousands of companies. Millions of potential complaints. That will be a cluster, if everyone does complain. DOL may not like it, but they will likely take into account the fact that these were caused by a bank failure to a scale we've not seen in a decade. At the end of the day the culprit is a bank that's now toast, or the F…

>And if this goes on for any length of time, you could sue your employer... but lack of payroll would only happen if the company no longer has any money - effectively making them bankrupt. Again you could name SVB in the lawsuit, or the FDIC... but good luck getting blood from the stone.

You could also sue the CEO directly. Failure to pay employee wages is one of the few things that can (somewhat) easily pierce the corporate veil.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#109

Post by SyzygistSix »

edgyquant wrote: post #3

Anyone who, like me, was wondering about Gusto they say the do not use SVB https://mobile.twitter.com/GustoHQ/status/163424676119459433...

"Gusto utilizes a redundant system of leading banking partners to facilitate our payroll processing and services to provide peace of mind for the unexpected." was the interesting part to me. I wonder if this is standard practice. It sounds like Rippling did not do this where Gusto did but that may be misleading. Anyone in the industry have insight?

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#110

Post by ajb »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #38
ummonk wrote: post #32

The article headline is clickbait. They're immediately doing payouts through JP Morgan Chase now; the only delay is because some payouts were in flight when they got stuck in SVB, so if a payout was started via SVB a few days ago and was going to arrive today (because bank transactions aren't instantaneous), the new payouts will take a few days to arrive via JP Morgan Chase.

So people are not receiving their promised money on time? Sounds like the title is accurate. Not everyone has the float to handle an unexpected delay in money. People can also suffer liquidity events.

Is it typical for US companies issue pay on the last possible contractual day? I don't think this is usual practice in the UK - for example my contact specifies that I will be paid by the last day of the month, but typically we get the payment several days earlier, sometimes add much as a week.
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