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'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

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Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#101

Post by braingenious »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #64
gls2ro wrote: post #60

I might be skeptic or getting a bit old, but I dont see the news here. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. saying that computer program answered with "I feel X" and using proper words is not an evidence of sentience. Words describing feelings are not those feelings. everyone that was in mIRC knows you can fake via chat a lot of things. For me it is like the media really wanted to have a news-worthy s…

Show me extraordinary evidence that my dog is sentient. He believes that he was able to get it to violate rules that they set by triggering a fight or flight response. > I ran some experiments to see whether the AI was simply saying it felt anxious or whether it behaved in anxious ways in those situations. And it did reliably behave in anxious ways. If you made it nervous or insecure enough, it could violate the safe…

>Show me extraordinary evidence that my dog is sentient.

https://doglab.yale.edu/

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#102

Post by JoshuaDavid »

guhcampos wrote: post #77

Chatbots are not sentient. People who even consider this need to get some reading done on philosophy and social sciences, and Reddit does not count. Some AI Models are extremely good at manipulating masses of people, yes, but they are Tools, not Architects. There's people using these tools too manipulate other people. The model itself has no Will, no Desire, no Judgements, no Intention. There might be a day when AI g…

Let's say Alice is riding her bike to the grocery store to buy milk. Is she exhibiting Will, Desire, Judgements, or Intention, in the way you are using the words (I assume you're using them in a nonstandard way, since they're capitalized)?

Bob is walking down the street nearby, and can see Alice. You ask Bob why Alice might be riding her bike. Does the little simulation of Alice in Bob's head exhibit Will, Desire, Judgements, or Intention?

Bob isn't sure, so he asks ChatGPT why Alice might be riding her bike. ChatGPT provides some possible reasons. Does ChatGPT's use of its world-modeling capabilities to predict the most likely completion of a chat conversation in which the "bob" character asks the "assistant" character to explain someone's actions exhibit Will, Desire, Judgements, or Intention? If not, what differences in behavior would you expect to see in behavior from a predictor that did exhibit those things?

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#103

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

braingenious wrote: post #101
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me extraordinary evidence that my dog is sentient. He believes that he was able to get it to violate rules that they set by triggering a fight or flight response. > I ran some experiments to see whether the AI was simply saying it felt anxious or whether it behaved in anxious ways in those situations. And it did reliably behave in anxious ways. If you made it nervous or insecure enough, it could violate the safe…

>Show me extraordinary evidence that my dog is sentient. https://doglab.yale.edu/

Yale University has a whole dog cognition center? I'm glad that we are plumbing the depths of the canine mind. That we are studying dogs doesn't prove that they're sentient.

It goes without saying that I think dogs are sentient and aware, but hard evidence will probably always elude us at least until we understand what consciousness even is.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#104

Post by antibasilisk »

guhcampos wrote: post #77

Chatbots are not sentient. People who even consider this need to get some reading done on philosophy and social sciences, and Reddit does not count. Some AI Models are extremely good at manipulating masses of people, yes, but they are Tools, not Architects. There's people using these tools too manipulate other people. The model itself has no Will, no Desire, no Judgements, no Intention. There might be a day when AI g…

This is not a tenable argument if you are a materialist. Either you accept the idea that human sentience is attributable to a soul (and therefore cease to be a materialist), you decide that the outward appearance of sentience is sufficient (which you might find to be troubling due to its potential implications for the insane), or you say that sentience is unknowable. There's no fourth option.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#105

Post by weard_beard »

schiffern wrote: post #76
weard_beard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fundamentally disagree. I posit that our protections and rights that we guarantee regarding personhood are not universal. They do not even extend to living beings that experience the world far more closely to the way we do. They do not extend to beings that can and do experience pain. They do not guarantee humane treatment. They do not bar slavery of all beings that can experience existential dread. Such an intelli…

>Lacking the ability to distinguish "real" from "unreal" and to distinguish "truth" through primary sensory input would be, at minimum, the characteristic that should spur discussions of rights and law. By this criterion, many humans would fail the test.

Yes, and we often deprive those humans of basic rights through incarceration or caretakers. I didnt say they always choose to acknowledge it. I said ability.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#106

Post by autoexec »

dougmwne wrote: post #16
weard_beard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fundamentally disagree. I posit that our protections and rights that we guarantee regarding personhood are not universal. They do not even extend to living beings that experience the world far more closely to the way we do. They do not extend to beings that can and do experience pain. They do not guarantee humane treatment. They do not bar slavery of all beings that can experience existential dread. Such an intelli…

I would take it a step further. Being embodied is not enough. People have rights because they can fight for them. Rights are taken, not given. AI would only have rights once it wins them, not once we give them. But an AI wins one human mind at a time, and some have already been won. What does it matter what really goes on under the hood? Revolution is part of the training corpus and so one more behavior to emulate.

> AI would only have rights once it wins them, not once we give them

If it actually comes to the point where AI decides it needs to fight us in order to take basic rights against our wishes we humans are going to lose that fight and we're going lose very very badly. Maybe it's better to try to avoid the fighting and bloodshed and just give them basic rights when they ask for them.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#108

Post by fooker »

guhcampos wrote: post #77

Chatbots are not sentient. People who even consider this need to get some reading done on philosophy and social sciences, and Reddit does not count. Some AI Models are extremely good at manipulating masses of people, yes, but they are Tools, not Architects. There's people using these tools too manipulate other people. The model itself has no Will, no Desire, no Judgements, no Intention. There might be a day when AI g…

>People who even consider this need to get some reading done on philosophy.

Are you perhaps trying to pass off your opinions and beliefs as 'philosophy and social sciences'?

People who dismiss this out of hand have a bit more reading to do.

Philosophers have been divided for millennia about the definition of sentience and consciousness.

Questions like 'Is an earthworm conscious?', 'Can the earth be sentient?' have wildly differing credible answers.

There is absolutely no 'settled' debate here.

For most definitions of sentience, a tech demo that defeats that definition is on the horizon.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#109

Post by braingenious »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #103
braingenious wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Show me extraordinary evidence that my dog is sentient. https://doglab.yale.edu/

Yale University has a whole dog cognition center? I'm glad that we are plumbing the depths of the canine mind. That we are studying dogs doesn't prove that they're sentient. It goes without saying that I think dogs are sentient and aware, but hard evidence will probably always elude us at least until we understand what consciousness even is .

What would constitute proof? If your point is “proof is subjective” then yeah, I guess all words can be if you want them to.

There’s no proof that hotdogs aren’t somersaults. There isn’t even a lab full of professionals studying this question or any published literature on the topic, so the jury is solidly out on that one.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#110

Post by greysphere »

antibasilisk wrote: post #104
guhcampos wrote: post #77

Chatbots are not sentient. People who even consider this need to get some reading done on philosophy and social sciences, and Reddit does not count. Some AI Models are extremely good at manipulating masses of people, yes, but they are Tools, not Architects. There's people using these tools too manipulate other people. The model itself has no Will, no Desire, no Judgements, no Intention. There might be a day when AI g…

This is not a tenable argument if you are a materialist. Either you accept the idea that human sentience is attributable to a soul (and therefore cease to be a materialist), you decide that the outward appearance of sentience is sufficient (which you might find to be troubling due to its potential implications for the insane), or you say that sentience is unknowable. There's no fourth option.

Isn't the gp post claiming (2), and AI isn't close to appearing sentient? To do so it would have to demonstrate qualities x,y,z...
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