Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 197 posts

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#101

Post by mrdingle »

ivanbernat wrote: post #97
mrdingle wrote: post #93

Lets take this seriously for a second. Say we're actually trying to catch cyber criminals and child pornographers and we're discussing enacting this law. Someone speaks up and says, "For all the discomfort and trouble we're putting innocent people through, the real criminals will just store their data online and travel with cleaned computers." How do you continue enacting this legislation? I'm trying to be as serious…

In my opinion this is exactly like SOPA, a corporation-sponsored bill. Why would any government care if you "pirate" a movie? There is no tax on cinemas, but you pay an tax + extra fees if you're buying blank CD/DVDs -- because they presume you're going to write ("burn") illegal content.

Put copyright aside for a sec and lets try to actually frame it in the case of child porn or drug trafficking. How can any legislator conclude that disrupting the public like this is acceptable after having a reasonable discussion about how easy it would be for criminals to circumvent?

The hugely ironic part of all of this is that laws like this don't make moving data harder for criminals. It just forces them to use better data-securing practices in their day to day lives which make it harder for local law enforcement to get their job done.

The only impact I can see this legislation having is making law abiding citizens upset with their democracy.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#102

Post by cdr »

tlrobinson wrote: post #91
tatsuke95 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they want the key from you, they're going to get the key. That's what will happen. Ask the inverse: they decide to detain you, indefinitely, until you produce the encryption key or admit that there's some base level of contraband on your computer that you're responsible for. What happens in that case? Maybe as a Canadian I see this differently. At least as an American you will have certain rights that you can hope…

Solution: Encrypted data is indistinguishable from random data. Use TrueCrypt (or similar) hidden volumes: http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-volume

If they suspect there's a hidden volume, that won't help you either.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#103

Post by greiskul »

arethuza wrote: post #99
Craiggybear wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I thought it was fair use. Like cassette recording an album in ye olden analogue days. To stop vinyl wear-and-tear. That was certainly perfectly legal as long as it wasn't distributed. Sigh. I'm a criminal and don't even know it. I'm fucking sick of paying taxes and yet still being labelled a criminal by people who don't even know me. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I believe it's because DVDs do have a trivial copyright protection scheme on them - ripping the DVD involves breaking this and it's this part that causes the real trouble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#Circumvention_of_DVD_co...

From the article you linked: "This case made clear that manufacturing and distribution of circumvention tools was illegal, but use of those tools for non-infringing purposes, including fair use purposes, was not." So it is legal to rip a DVD, it is illegal to make or distribute a tool that allows DVD ripping. Yes, the law is insane like that.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#104

Post by Craiggybear »

arethuza wrote: post #99
Craiggybear wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I thought it was fair use. Like cassette recording an album in ye olden analogue days. To stop vinyl wear-and-tear. That was certainly perfectly legal as long as it wasn't distributed. Sigh. I'm a criminal and don't even know it. I'm fucking sick of paying taxes and yet still being labelled a criminal by people who don't even know me. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I believe it's because DVDs do have a trivial copyright protection scheme on them - ripping the DVD involves breaking this and it's this part that causes the real trouble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#Circumvention_of_DVD_co...

Oh. That'll be it then.

Silly of me to have forgotten the trivial CP scheme.

Considering I've probably paid £10 per person to have seen it in the cinema and then have bought the over-priced DVD as well. How many times do they expect me to pay for the same-old-same-old?

I've paid two, maybe three times for the same product. Fair Use isn't a crime and I'll please myself. Either that or simply stop participating and stop buying their product entirely.

May as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb, eh?

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#105

Post by runjake »

To me, the following passage from the link demonstrates the dire situation in the US:

  In July 2008, the United States Department of Homeland
  Security disclosed that its border search policies allow
  U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents to conduct 
  random searches of electronic devices for "information 
  concerning terrorism, narcotics smuggling, and other 
  national security matters; alien admissibility; 
  contraband including child pornography, monetary 
  instruments, and information in violation of copyright 
  or trademark laws; and evidence of embargo violations 
  or other import or export control laws."[61][62] US 
  Senator Russell Feingold called the policies "truly 
  alarming" and proposed to introduce legislation to 
  require reasonable suspicion of illegality and to 
  prohibit racial profiling.[61] The Ninth Circuit 
  Court of Appeals has previously upheld the 
  constitutionality of laptop searches without reasonable
  suspicion at border crossings.[61]
Sure, Feingold could introduce new legislation already covered by the 4th amendment. But if the government isn't going to pay attention to a founding document of the US, what makes him think they're going to pay attention to his piddly law?

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#106

Post by arethuza »

greiskul wrote: post #103
arethuza wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's because DVDs do have a trivial copyright protection scheme on them - ripping the DVD involves breaking this and it's this part that causes the real trouble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#Circumvention_of_DVD_co...

From the article you linked: "This case made clear that manufacturing and distribution of circumvention tools was illegal, but use of those tools for non-infringing purposes, including fair use purposes, was not." So it is legal to rip a DVD, it is illegal to make or distribute a tool that allows DVD ripping. Yes, the law is insane like that.

It does say this though:

"personal use" copying is not explicitly mentioned as a type of fair use, and case law has not yet established otherwise.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#107

Post by dbuxton »

tnuc wrote: post #12
spdy wrote: post #5

Can the US Custom force someone to unlock an encrypted drive or deny entry if you dont comply ? Im fine with the search but they have no right to scan my notebook etc.

They can't really deny you entry if you have a US passport. Yes they can charge you/confiscate if you don't cooperate/unlock your data. You might be better off hiding it in plain view, it's not like they're going to do much more than a cursory glance.

The tone of this entire thread is very paranoid and it's not helped by slightly rash comments like this.

The EFF says that you can't be required to unlock encrypted files without a court order. https://www.eff.org/document/defending-privacy-us-border-gui...

Whether or not that's a good idea is up to you and certainly (as a non-US citizen) I'd be very reluctant to start making a fuss - if I had anything sufficiently sensitive that a long flight home seemed the less-bad option, I would have just sent it in parallel.

FWIW I'm a Canadian citizen and when returning to that country I refuse, politely, to answer any questions whatsoever (which have become really quite intrusive) on the grounds that there is no legal requirement to answer. It often leads to a customs screen (which is a ten minute delay/irritation) but there, and I assume in the US, there is no right to deny entry to someone holding valid travel documents.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#108

Post by r00fus »

yason wrote: post #13

Regardless of ACTA, I have already established a personal policy to: 1) encrypt my partitions (other than root, to make upgrades and reinstalls easier; I use LUKS) 2) copy the essential first megabytes of each LUKS partition to my server or shell account somewhere, encrypted with GPG 3) fill that space with random data 4) travel and go through customs 5) access the GPG encrypted LUKS blocks over internet, decrypt and…

Refusing or claiming incapacity to decrypt is not the answer. Steganography is.

Show them a partition with normal files encrypted with the display key, while keeping your secret-key-activated files on the hidden partition.

Of course, this won't stop a determined search, but it will likely get you by the security guards.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#109

Post by aneth »

rlpb wrote: post #45
yason wrote: post #13

Regardless of ACTA, I have already established a personal policy to: 1) encrypt my partitions (other than root, to make upgrades and reinstalls easier; I use LUKS) 2) copy the essential first megabytes of each LUKS partition to my server or shell account somewhere, encrypted with GPG 3) fill that space with random data 4) travel and go through customs 5) access the GPG encrypted LUKS blocks over internet, decrypt and…

> If "they" find out about my encrypted LUKS blocks, I can also ask my friend to provide half of the GPG passphrase, so that I can honestly claim I don't have the passphrase to unlock the blocks. This won't help you legally. You may honestly claim that you don't have the passphrase, but you cannot honestly claim that you cannot decrypt the contents. You just have to call and ask your friend while you're detained at c…

You should never lie to a border agent about whether you or your friend can decrypt a device. You can decline to answer any question, and you do NOT have to provide passwords or keys. Only a judge can compell you to decrypt your drive. That said, border agents can make your life miserable so it's advisable to avoid confrontation.

This advice is based on the EFF document. IANAL.

https://www.eff.org/document/defending-privacy-us-border-gui...

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#110

Post by eurohacker »

danenania wrote: post #65

What strikes me most strongly about all this is how utterly weird it is. Border guards give 'enhanced pat downs' to a middle class suburban family and find no weapons or contraband, but then open the family computer to find an unlicensed Finding Nemo avi, and haul them all off to jail. It's just such a bizarre mix of nanny-state and fascism. I know it's a pointless rhetorical question, but... how on earth has it come…

but... how on earth has it come to this??

,ay be it that the old oligarchy wants to preserve their power in society and wants that decisions are traditionally made in Bilderberg meetings ,

and its not good for them if something unplanned happens in the world - such as Arab springs

Jay Rockefeller: Internet should have never existed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY

Post reply on HN