Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#101

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:48 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #45

PreInternet01 wrote: post #5

More correct albeit less clickbaity headline: recent builds of Microsoft Edge will uninstall any remnants of Internet Explorer from your PC and replace them with compatibility shims, so most legacy apps should continue to work as-is. On Windows Server platforms, where IE11 is still inexplicably the default experience even in the most recent 2022 editions, you can still enjoy its full functionality, until you explicit…

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

>the average user sees it as nothing more than a glorified blue icon to immediately download what has become your direct competitors far more competent and meaningful execution of browser software.

One of the marketing style slagging quote, "Internet Explorer. The most used browser to download another browser." I remember the first time a buddy said that to me, and it has aged oh so well.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#102

Post by asdff » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:49 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #60

nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

Microsoft only cares about legacy support if it means the vast majority of customers. I will give you an example: go to a top tier research institution for biology, and sort your cells with the fluorescence-activated cell sorter (FACS). You might have to now burn that data onto a cd rom, because the software running the six figure instrument was written in 2002 for windows XP, and for reasons only known to microsoft, this software is no longer able to run on modern windows. So now IT has to airgap the desktop sitting by the machine, and the only way they let you get data off according to policy is through CD rom, not usb because that breaches the gap. The vendor for the instrument has no incentive to update that software either; they'd rather you dish out another half million dollars for a new sorter.

There are hundreds of instruments like this in any given research institute, all because Microsoft decided unilaterally that software that ran fine 20 years ago is clearly useless and doesn't need to run anymore on modern hardware that receives security updates.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#103

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:50 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #70

nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Was Internet Explorer ever actually a core and critical part of Windows? Sure, Microsoft claimed that it was. But of course, they would have done that, given that the alternative was to admit that the Justice Department's argument was correct, and that Internet Explorer was being bundled…

You could enter an http address into File Explore in place of the C:\ nonsense, and it would replace the folder view contents with the website. See, embedded at the core. /s

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#104

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:51 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #98

techwiz137 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, that certain old software like Volvo's VIDA needs IE. And while Edge's IE Tab works it's much much slower in loading.

That sounds like a problem for Geely, not Microsoft.

Microsoft makes it their problem by rug pulling IE

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#105

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:52 PM UTC

PreInternet01 wrote: post #12

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I see no reason why they "should" upgrade, and why instead we shouldn't at least try to provide those users a mediocre amount of support. For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking

A genuine use case for IE11 on Windows Server platforms, which is what I was talking about, would mostly be 'masochism and a penchant for malware'. If your average grandparent runs Windows Server, learning a new browser every now and then would be the least of their problems, IMHO.

Aren't we getting close to where somebody reading this forum has quite tech savvy grandparents yet? When will this "someone's grandparent" trope just retire too?

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#106

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:52 PM UTC

jabroni_salad wrote: post #43

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I see no reason why they "should" upgrade, and why instead we shouldn't at least try to provide those users a mediocre amount of support. For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking

On my grandmother's computer I did the "install this site as an app" function for the sites she uses and they open up in frameless windows. The only browser controls available to her are back and refresh. Highly recommend.

Does this work with back button high jacking that is so common?

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#107

Post by h4ch1 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:59 PM UTC

I recently switched to Edge and have been mildly surprised, after turning off all telemetry, having sleeping tabs built-in, which actually work much better than Chrome's and Firefox's (also considering 3rd party extensions), and my browser RAM usage dropping to a "measly" 800MB with 100 tabs open and a non-noticeable delay when I switch to a sleeping tab, seems a much better alternative than using Chrome. Plus sidebar tabs are a huge plus.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#108

Post by athorax » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 7:59 PM UTC

Zetice wrote: post #78

athorax wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad it is working out for you! I already have a browser of choice and would prefer my OS not make those decisions for me.

It's a browser, not a religion, try and keep some perspective here.

I'd also prefer my OS not choose a religion for me either :)

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#109

Post by i386 » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 8:00 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #60

nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

A weird comment that deserves more upvotes.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#110

Post by bakugo » Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 8:03 PM UTC

lockhouse wrote: post #54

athorax wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad it is working out for you! I already have a browser of choice and would prefer my OS not make those decisions for me.

A web browser is expected and included in every modern desktop and mobile OS I can think of. What is different about Safari on Apple OSes, Chrome on Android and Chromebooks, or Firefox on Linux distros? At least on Windows it is trivially easy to use a different browser and set it as the default.

> At least on Windows it is trivially easy to use a different browser and set it as the default.

No, it's not. On 11 at least, any link that is part of the OS (or at least modern parts of it) will still forcibly open Edge, including anything you search in the start menu. It's not possible to change this without third party software.