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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#101

Post by taraharris »

sneak wrote: post #85
taraharris wrote: post #77

I poured a year of my life into an app written in Swift for iOS before I ran into a brick wall trying to figure out how to use Apple's stuff to encode frames into an mp4 video. It's a pretty slick thing that uses low-level APIs like Metal, Core Audio, CFRunLoop, etc. https://github.com/realtaraharris/arezzo I accidentally spilled a latte into my M1 MacBook Pro, which cost me $2000 to buy. At that point I decided to j…

There is an argument that making and publishing free macOS apps is a lot more "contributing to the commons" than writing C++ for Haiku that will be used by 100 people maximum.

I put up all my code. I wonder why I'm getting downvoted?

And how is Apple ever going to change if no one makes a credible competing open solution? I believe Haiku is going to get a lot more popular with creators. Unlike Linux, no corporations control it, and it's also more Mac-like than the thing the Mac has become.

One of the biggest improvements coming to Haiku is hardware-accelerated Vulkan graphics. I am so excited for this! https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/vulkan-lavapipe-software-rend...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#104

Post by smoldesu »

massysett wrote: post #93
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#105

Post by dpcan »

2 weeks ago I created a prototype in SwiftUI to present at work this week and I was going to use my phone. An hour before the meeting I decided to open it and do one last run-through to refamiliarize myself with it.

I got the same notice.

Had to scramble to rebuild/provision and re-install on my device from my Mac that was in another part of town - for which I had to drive.

And then I got some strange errors because apparently I had to update either my OS or XCode?

Ended up just showing the Android version and that worked fine of course.

It's very annoying indeed, but at the end of the day, complaining probably won't get me anywhere, it's been this way since, what, 2007?

P.S. Developers complain about a bunch of things on the Andrdoid platform too, particularly Google Play, so it's hard to win.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#106

Post by cortesoft »

smoldesu wrote: post #52
outime wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that not being able to develop hobby apps is a side effect of that policy, not that the policy's main aim is to prevent hobby apps from being developed.

The side-effect is in the eye of the beholder. Apple claims they lock down the App Store for security, and a convenient "side effect" is that their stranglehold on platform transactions makes them upwards of $80 billion annually. From the perspective of the shareholder, it's obvious that Apple's motivations are more driven more by profits than ensuring universal security. Regulators worldwide agree!

The original comment didn’t say that Apple was doing it for security, just that they were doing it so people couldn’t sideload apps easily.

I think you are both right. Apple wants to make sure all app sales happen through their App Store so they get a cut, and they are willing to make hobby apps difficult to load in order to make that happen. They don’t care about stopping hobby apps, but they care about making sure they get a cut of all sales.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#107

Post by jtbayly »

bragr wrote: post #24

I doubt this is "Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps", so much as "Apple doesn’t want dev accounts to be an easy backdoor for sideloading apps" and hobby apps are an acceptable casualty.

The policy is, we want to control what you can install on your device so that we can make more money.

Both of the things you listed are side effects.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#108

Post by Spooky23 »

sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

The problem is the computer has changed, it’s not a computer, it’s a node in a ubiquitous global network. 2003 and 2023 are very different and we’re feeling the negative impacts of global connectivity.

Look at the trackers like AirTag. A gadget to find your keys is incredibly useful, but can also turn into a device to aid criminal activity pretty readily.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#109

Post by lostgame »

sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

>> It's like giving someone a deck of cards and telling them that these cards can only be used to play blackjack. You can't invent a card game, or change the rules, or build a house of cards, or do card magic.

Millions of people buy cards that can only be used to specifically only play, say; 'Magic: the Gathering' (MtG).

You could probably invent some sort of new game with MtG cards, or do some sort of card magic with them (no pun intended); but MtG cards are very intentionally not designed to be 'general purpose' cards or tools to design new card games with. They have a very specific audience in mind.

Magic the Gathering cards are also much more expensive than a regular deck of playing cards I can grab from my local dollar store. They have a lot less utility than said cards I can acquire for a $1.15CDN, taxes in; and they also have a bit of a stigma from people who seem to not like MtG for various reasons.

Somehow, still; it's one of the largest and most widely played card or tabletop games in the world; easily - and it's got an enthusiastic community of passionate and fascinating people.

Is Magic: the Gathering ruining card games? It is 'an offence against the entire notion of' what card games are?

Fuck no. Apple isn't some offence to the notion of computers, either.

Maybe it's not to your taste, but just because a product is designed for a specific set of purposes or utilities that don't suit your preference doesn't mean you have to jump to the dramatic conclusion that these products are 'ruining' the entire notion of what a product is. It's just a different product. Get over it, and use a different one. Take a valium and realize people like and use different things, and that's okay.

On a side note, I develop hobbyist apps for WatchOS, iOS, MacOS, the web; and SEGA Saturn, all on my Mac; and I've never had any issues actually achieving the results I wanted.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#110

Post by JustSomeNobody »

bena wrote: post #29

Something smells here. Does he or does he not want to publish to the App Store? And it is kind of weird. Apple only wants signed applications on their devices. They grant a one-week exception for developers because they expect that application to be in constant flux. You should never need more than a week. But you need to sign your code to run it on a more permanent basis. I look at it more like buying an SSL certifi…

> You should never need more than a week.

Oh, come on. Don't say "never" just because you have no need or want here.

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