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Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#101

Post by realslimjd »

trieste92 wrote: post #96
realslimjd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions can and do exist in right to work states. The point of a union is not job security. It's about giving workers collective power they may not otherwise have. Historically unions have been painted as extremely antagonistic towards companies in the United States, but there's no reason that has to be true. A well-run union recognizes that their survival is tied to the company's survival, and as long as both sides e…

> Usually that means something like getting a PIP and six weeks to improve performance. Is that such an unreasonable ask? Isn't this what parent took issue with? If you can't fire the underperformers, where's the incentive to get shit done?

You can fire them after six weeks, which in the grand scheme of things is not that long. I've been places where it takes longer to get requirements back from clients.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#102

Post by PavleMiha »

kingstoned wrote: post #91
realslimjd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions can and do exist in right to work states. The point of a union is not job security. It's about giving workers collective power they may not otherwise have. Historically unions have been painted as extremely antagonistic towards companies in the United States, but there's no reason that has to be true. A well-run union recognizes that their survival is tied to the company's survival, and as long as both sides e…

The point of a union is not job security. It's about giving workers collective power they may not otherwise have. What would people do with this theoretical collective power? Probably job security combined with restrictions on work. Do as little as you can while being guaranteed a paycheck. What people want is protection from being fired for no reason. How can people be fired for no reason? There is always a reason,…

On the other hand, why would people use their collective power to sink the company they work for? No company, no jobs. In reality the power has to be balanced between the two, and both parties need to act carefully and rationally.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#103

Post by leereeves »

GAN_Game wrote: post #99
malermeister wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk's dad was a South African millionaire. Bill Gates' mom was on the board of directors of a bank and gave him an intro to IBM execs. [0] Bezos parents invested 250k to fund Amazon. [1] Upper middle class is generational wealth already if it passes a generation. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influe... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/how-jeff-bezos-got-his-paren...

Zuckerberg went to Phillips Exeter, a high school which costs at least $47,000 a year. Zuckerberg bought Instagram from Kevin Systrom who went to Middlesex high school, which costs at least $55,000 a year. At this point it becomes a parlor game of who is rich, and who is "upper middle class", which apparently means spending $55,000+ a year on your kid's high school.

You're really moving the goalposts. From "the heirs who own the majority of stock" to "spending $55,000+ a year on your kid's high school."

Edit: Zuckerberg's parents were a psychiatrist and a dentist. Well paid jobs but still jobs. I'd hardly call it generational wealth.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#104

Post by eunos »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Reflecting on the latest big tech lay offs. Decisions about whom were targeted were made by folks 3-4 levels above you who doesnt know you personally and even your performance might not matter to them.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#105

Post by mc32 »

westpfelia wrote: post #83
mc32 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union crime _is_ white collar crime (they may represent blue collar workers but the reps are starched white collar workers --and aside from intimidation and other forms of violence). But why are Unions such magnets for corruption? For corporations you have various forms of oversight like SEC, SOX, and many others. In unions there is more of an unspoken code not to whistleblow because they are "you" and you don't wann…

EXACTLY no one can name a single crime committed by a company. Its only the union orgs within them. Look at Enron. The only crime commited by Enron was in its ultra left wing accounting depts. Those poor C levels were nothing but heros!

Yeah, I don't know why the Saintly unions get tarred like that. Just because some engage in racketeering and have ties to organized crime, right? It's so weird!

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#106

Post by dexterdog »

mc32 wrote: post #58
andsoitis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

soecifically, tesla profitability per vehicle is 8 times that of toyota (as of Nov 2022).

And Toyota places second, and all others have worse numbers. And Ford a strong contender loses money per electric vehicle sold.

Just like Tesla did when their volumes were statistically insignificant.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nicoburns wrote: post #24
elif wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

Why do you associate unions with people coasting and not meeting their commitments? For example, two unions striking here in UK recently have teacher and nurse unions. They’re some of the hardest working professions I’ve seen, but they get compensated poorly for it, and in the case of nurses they have to work ridiculously long and busy shifts because they are severely understaffed. Unions have a place for fighting ag…

> Why do you associate unions with people coasting and not meeting their commitments?

American public sector unions are cartoonishly bad. Recent example from San Francisco. Fourth grader hasn’t learned math in six months. Their math teacher had a concussion and can’t work. The substitute doesn’t teach math. (?!?) The original teacher can’t be replaced. (They deserve disability, but students deserve instruction.) Substitutes must be drawn from a list, on which there were two options, and the other person didn’t want to do it.

So students get babysat while their peers learn math. Because every stopgap, including another teacher dropping in, or a parent volunteering, or hiring an off-list sub or even temp, or telling the sub they have hired to knock it off, it’s grade school math, they can probably find a decent YouTube series, is contractually prohibited.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#108

Post by trieste92 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #27
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I don't think you're Stockholm Syndromed, but I definitely think you're lacking in empathy. Think about it this way -- do you think you have been always productive and reliable, 100% of the time? If not (let's say, 5% of the time you weren't), then you were the the unproductive or unreliable coworker, possibly due to factors in your life that you could not control. The idea of a union is that it insulates you from be…

> The idea of a union is that it insulates you from being instantly punished for factors you might not be able to control a little better than the market is doing right now.

Most people have good days and bad days. Any manager who's crazy enough to punish someone for having one bad day isn't a good manager. If that happens it's likely a manager specific issue

> When was the last time you got a job purely on the basis of your personal relationships without having to jump through hoops to show your skills?

This isn't a bad thing. More merit, less favoritism. People are hired based off of qualifications alone (ideally)

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#109

Post by nerdponx »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #27
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I don't think you're Stockholm Syndromed, but I definitely think you're lacking in empathy. Think about it this way -- do you think you have been always productive and reliable, 100% of the time? If not (let's say, 5% of the time you weren't), then you were the the unproductive or unreliable coworker, possibly due to factors in your life that you could not control. The idea of a union is that it insulates you from be…

It's not just about being unproductive or unreliable. It's about being taken advantage of, even if and when you are fully productive and reliable. Hard work and individual productivity can and do get individually rewarded in many cases, but overall you are still entirely at the whims of your employer in an asymmetric power relationship. The entire purpose of collective bargaining and unions is to balance the power relationship.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#110

Post by elicash »

NoblePublius wrote: post #70

LOL they’re office workers who “label data”. Meanwhile the factory workers all have seven figure options grants and aren’t interested.

Considering their work is keeping people from being driven straight into trees and other cars, I don't know why you'd laugh at what their job consists of.

But yes, the article mentions that Tesla has been working on auto-labeling for years and it's interesting tech that I hope is successful because it could improve safety.

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