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Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

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101–110 of 273 posts

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#101
post #15

I listened to the Vox The Weeds podcast interviewing the same author and was frustrated that his many explanations seemed disconnected. Since old insulin patents have expired, is it that you are allowed to buy generic insulin but there are no manufacturers, or that you not allowed to buy generic insulin because recent advancements are so good that doctors won’t prescribe the old stuff anymore? And no one will make ge…

>doctors won’t prescribe the old stuff

whatever the quality of life improvements of the newer stuff is its worth pointing out there's a doctors-getting-kickbacks scandal every few years https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=prescription+kickbacks&ia=w...

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#102
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article directly explains this. # 1 competition works > When a company develops a new drug, it gets a period of exclusivity, 10 years or more, in which it is the only one able to make or sell that drug. But after that exclusivity period has passed, other companies can make a carbon copy and sell it at a lower price. Studies find that once several generic competitors come on the market, prices drop significantly.…

Thanks. That's the opposite (the government is protecting corporate interests too much) of what the usual "It's the feds fault" usually implies.

No, it's not the opposite.

Regulations often have the effect of protecting entrenched corporate interests.

Government regulation hurting competition, and hurting the free market by "protecting corporate interests too much" is precisely what people are often complaining about.

Supporting the free market would instead be when you allow competition, and do not protect the entrenched corporations too much.

Copyright and IP laws are probably the quintessential example of government harming the free market by preventing competitors from competing.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#103
post #34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the popular types of insulin still under patent, and if so, how is California’s initiative a solution? Are they hoping to license the necessary patents?

Here you go : https://haiweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/HAI_ACCISS_fac... It looks like most patents are expired. I hope this should open the way for effective analogue insulin to be manufactured generically.

The insulin that California would be getting from Civica Rx, at least, would be analog insulins. They are partnering together until California can make its own insulin. The biosimilars made by Mylan (Semglee) and Eli Lily (Basaglar) are both analog biosimilars, specifically biosimilar insulin glargine.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#104
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are allowed to buy generic/affordable "older" varieties of insulin. It can be got at Walmart for $25 per vial. It is a "regular insulin" as opposed to the more modern insulin analogs; a functional but inferior technology that requires a very restrictive and rigid diet, as opposed to modern combinations of fast and slow acting analogs that allow for something closer to a "normal", albeit carb-cautious diet. It wil…

> Regular / NPH That's what my brother used to take 20 years ago. They are not exactly 'inferior technology' and there are uses for them. But you are right that diabetics these days don't generally take them. There are generic long lasting insulin alternatives, but none that I know of are available in the US. I believe that's what CA wants to do.

Yeah, I don't mean to decry their effectiveness, only what they demand of the user in order to render that effectiveness. They were the gold standard up until relatively recently, and saved a lot of lives.

The modern programs of a combination of fast/slow analogs are more flexible and adaptable. The demand on the user is still pretty high, but it's a bit closer to baseline.

EDIT: and I guess I should say, I've got plenty of bias from my own relatively narrow experience. I'm sure there are different regimens and different opinions amongst various doctors

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#105

> Though insulin generally costs less than $10 per dose to produce, some versions of the drug have a list price above $200. This is in part because, in the US, a warped market has allowed three companies to dominate the insulin business. > With California leading the way, a handful of states are considering trying to disrupt the market for essential medications, starting with insulin. The plan would be to manufacture…

>> Is California just going to ignore these intellectual property laws?

Like they ignored asinine federal drugs laws? I hope so!

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#106

Walmart now sells Novo Nordisk produced insulin for $17 per pen[0]. I have a hard time believing California will do it cheaper than that. [0] https://www.walmart.com/cp/relion-diabetic-care/3769564

As someone with little actual knowledge of different insulin, I've been told that the cheaper one that Walmart sells is significantly harder to manager and you tend to end up going through lots of spikes & dips with it, which while enough to still live for some is pretty debilitating. Hopefully California is planning on doing a different style of insulin that better manages that?

Unfortunately, this is true, and a lot of people struggle to manage their diabetes after switching to the Walmart brand. The stories I have heard generally occur to young adults who have to transition out of their parents' insurance plans.

https://theconversation.com/why-telling-people-with-diabetes...

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#107
post #85

This is a failure of the free market. When companies get too big, and no longer compete, they should be regulated. The free market only works when there's a ... free ... market.

Insulin is hyper regulated in the US. There is no free market for insulin.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#108

> Though insulin generally costs less than $10 per dose to produce, some versions of the drug have a list price above $200. This is in part because, in the US, a warped market has allowed three companies to dominate the insulin business. > With California leading the way, a handful of states are considering trying to disrupt the market for essential medications, starting with insulin. The plan would be to manufacture…

> Is California just going to ignore these intellectual property laws? How will the state not be liable for damages when individuals are? Insulin can be made without breaking patents. Unless you specifically require something branded as Lantus®, for example(which is in no small part due to publications funded by pharmaceutical companies themselves, but also some 'marketing' straight to doctors). There are other longe…

> But pharma companies are savvy about finding ways to extend their monopolies, with insulin and other drugs, by making minor tweaks to the chemical compound and asking for a patent extension. In the case of insulin, the companies can also modify the delivery device to protect their market share. Each product is meant to be used with specific, company-designed injectors. Though the patents on the artificial insulin developed in the 1990s have started expiring, these companies continue to hold and extend monopolies on either their devices or other chemical compounds, making it harder for generic competitors to enter the market.

> Other federal regulations have added to the challenge. The FDA began to treat insulin as a biologic drug in 2020 — meaning it is made with living materials instead of combining chemicals like conventional pharmaceuticals — which comes with a different set of standards for generic versions, which are known as biosimilars, as well as manufacturing challenges given the precise conditions these products must be made in. Biosimilars can cost up to $250 million to produce and take up to eight years to bring to the market, versus a one-year investment of as little as $1 million for conventional generics. And unless the FDA recognizes a new generic insulin as interchangeable with the products already on the market, health insurers might not want to cover it and doctors may not be willing to prescribe it.

Seems like the barriers for a state entity are exactly the same as the barriers for private generic drug manufacturers, and the state could easily just stop erecting these barriers.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#109
post #70

This is great news. Honestly, I hope to see more nationalization of widely used services (or whatever the equivalent word for nationalization is at state or municipal levels.) Municipal broadband, power, roads, schools, post, housing, and healthcare? It's long overdue, and with an appropriate amount of funding has been shown to be effective at controlling costs and delivering moderately good quality in most cases. A…

Honestly though some industry's products/services verifiably don't improve end user/customer experiences from maximizing profits. It's hard not to see it at this point

It makes sense that to improve end user experience you need competition. Works great in restaurants. Anywhere with network effects (utilities) or legal barriers to entry (healthcare) doesn't tend to compete away poor results.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#110
post #72

How do people live with themselves charging 20 times the production cost of an essential medicine?

Let's not pretend almost all diabetics didn't get in that situation themselves.

1.4 million people in the us alone would disagree with you.

Type 1 diabetes has nothing to do with diet it is an autoimmune disease with genetic and possible environmental antecedents.

If you're interested in learning more about type 1 diabetes please check out:

https://www.jdrf.org/t1d-resources/about/facts

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