Live data from Hacker News

Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

maximumeffort.substack.com

101–110 of 210 posts

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#101
post #21

It's not a scaling problem , it s a "reddit likes free labor" problem. They aren't going to give up on the small group of self-important idiots who named themselves mods 15 years ago and still havent quit, because they can't find new ones. No sane person will do such work for free in 2023 Trying to reason on the behavior of the mods is like arguing with the weather

We know some power-users are paid to promote things by advertising agencies and other special interest groups. We know some PACs are active in trying to shape public opinion on Reddit. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the moderators, especially the "powermods", are earning a living based on payments by some of these groups.

That is a popular opinion amongst redditors, and I find it a bit conspiracy-theory-ish. Shills doing anything potentially impactful are often easy to spot and tend to be called out on it or ignored. I expect there is some quid pro quo going on, but "earning a living" seems like a stretch (with maybe some very rare temporary exceptions in burgeoning frontiers).

More plausible is that there are lobbyists or employees of think tanks who use reddit as one small part of their overall efforts. There are likely a ton of failed attempts to make something go viral, with the occasional lucky success. I can't see the time investment usually being worth it for anyone actually looking at results.

Of course, for those with money to burn who are too lazy for followup, someone they employ could be making money as a 'reddit influencer', but I just don't see them accomplishing much. Throughout the history of post-agricultural civilization, there have been dead weight positions eagerly filled by those more interested in easy money than taking pride in their work. It's like a lottery for the ethically challenged, and what they do is ultimately of very little importance to the rest of us.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#102
I think that the concept of the moderator is fundamentally deranged. Moderators are limited, egoistic, normal people. I don't want them telling me how to speak

If the conversation needs policing, let the individual conversationalists do it for themselves.

Some kind of propagating peer rating system is something I'd like to see. Ie : I manually rate peer X. And peer Y is rated by how peer X rated peer Y, weighted by how I rated peer X, and so on.

Is there someplace where alternative forum-management-methods are experimented with?

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> personally affected because they are trans That's something I find surprising about reddit - I can't remember what the exact percentage is, but I think it's something like 0.1% of the world population is trans... but it seems like 90% of the moderators on reddit are. What is it about reddit that attracts them?

There's a big overlap between people with autism and people that are trans.

Yep. Same with speedrunning community, autism, and trans. In the Jordan Peterson interview with Chloe Cole is where I learned that autism is correlated if not causally related to transitioning. Two hour interview warning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3MzPeomqs

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. I'm sorry but this is absurd. If dang had a mental break and decided only cat picture posts were allowed going forward, there would definitely be a conversation. It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.

> It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists. But this is the very point of contention, and is not actually known.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#105
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sorry, but no. Hogwart's Legacy the game is simply part of the franchise. It does not promote any sort of political speech. People attacking it are attacking it because they have an issue with the person, not the franchise in which JKR doesn't actually exist. My perception of JKR is that she was simply a person with a personal opinion, and then it became a holy war against her because certain individuals became enrag…

>it became a holy war against her

Excommunication for heresy. But we call it cancel culture now.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#106
I already knew where this was going. Reddit has been unusable for me as a contributor for a long time, I'd say 9/10 when I post something on an arbitrary subreddit my post tends to get deleted.

It really is infuriating, either you didn't comply to one of their many rules (and every subreddit has different rules), or you used a keyword that triggered moderation, or you posted in the "wrong" subreddit (I wish they would just repost for you in that subreddit then), etc.

At this point I've pretty much stopped posting, because I already know it'll be a nightmare to get a post approved (and even more so if you're on the app, which makes it really hard to retry posting if you get your post deleted due to forgetting about one of the subreddit rule).

Another bad thing is that, if you find that a subreddit community is toxicaly moderated (hurr r/sanfrancisco) then you don't have much choice but to leave completely. It's often way too hard to compete with an established subreddit, or to have your voice heard if you want to complain about the moderation or promote an alternative. Subreddit takeovers are truly a thing of the past due to the dilution of them all.

If I had to guess why there's such a problem, I would say: when you're moderating a subreddit you get tons of people who are here just because your subreddit was crossposted somewhere else, or suggested in their feeds. Very few people are on your subreddit because they visited the direct URL. So nobody cares about your rules, or your culture, etc. A subreddit really became like a normal category to sort posts on Reddit.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#107

Reddit mods are arguably the worst part of reddit. It's so refreshing to come to HN and see (community- and mod-powered) moderation done right

> Reddit mods are arguably the worst part of reddit No, the actual administrators (the ones that work there are). They're the ones that can actually ban entire subreddits and entire users. I had my account permanently suspended for upvoting vaccine hesitancy. That wasn't done by a reddit moderator.

The de facto policy that men and white people as a group aren't covered by their anti-harassment policy also comes directly from the employees, not the mods.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#108
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say one difference between reddit mods and the police is that the stakes are really low on reddit. Arguing or getting upset about mod decisions gives off strong "fight with the bouncer" vibes. Even if you're right, there's no way to "win". The best course of action is to just quietly move on.

And as any divorce lawyer can tell you the less the stakes are the more petty, vindictive, spiteful and hateful everyone involved gets.

"Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." and various versions: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/18/acad-politics/

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#109
post #8

I think the author doesn't understand that reddit mods don't work for reddit. In their discussion with the mods they mention "site-wide rules" which makes me think they don't understand that the mods of each reddit make their own rules. On that sub, their rules don't allow people who mostly post links to their own site. It's up to you if agree with their rule, but those are the rules they have chosen. The common resp…

At this point Reddit mods look like unpaid employees to me. This was not the case say, 10 years ago, when Reddit admins enforced the sitewide rules and mods did their own thing. Now Reddit depends on mods to enforce the sitewide rules, instructs them in their work, removes them if their work product is not up to snuff, and I've even seen them demand minimum staffing levels be met.

I’m one of the mods of a subreddit with over 50K subscribers and all I could say is that it is very tiring. And, looking to quit being a mod.

People just can’t read or won’t read the rules. One thing I hate most is that YouTubers high jacking or spamming without even engaging the community or in the comments. It’s so frustrating to keep removing it.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> personally affected because they are trans That's something I find surprising about reddit - I can't remember what the exact percentage is, but I think it's something like 0.1% of the world population is trans... but it seems like 90% of the moderators on reddit are. What is it about reddit that attracts them?

I have similar questions about the apparent over-representation of LGBT people among high-profile software developers, but it feels like it's never okay to ask those questions.

My own explanation is that to be good at computer science you need to have had spent a lot of time in front of a computer during your childhood. The LGBT community used to be much less (and still is in most places) accepted IRL, and as such you'd have to find your community online.

So here you have it, that's my theory, a lot of LGBTs spent a lot of time online and then got hooked on computer science stuff.

Post reply on HN