An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer • Hacker News Board

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#101

Post by labrador » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

I agree with the capital class vs. the worker class, but I don't think it's at play here as much as the author writes. The future looks very unpredictable right now, so you do what any good captain would do and tighten ship to get ready for the storm.

AI could eliminate the need for some of your services. It will likely eliminate the need for some of your employees. What would WW3 do to our business? How about another pandemic. Only the companies who are flexible and adaptable will make it.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#102

Post by bediger4000 » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #50

bediger4000 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offshoring and H1-Bs have definitely kept programmer wages lower than they would have been otherwise.

I make better than 3x times my wife’s teacher salary. If I really pushed hard career wise I could probably get to 6x.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the market distortion caused by offshoring and H1-B. Could you explain further?

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#103

Post by qez2 » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

> To use the language of antitrust, these companies are a cartel that is using its monopsony power to drive down demand for labor.

Except there is absolutely no reason to believe this at all. Author is just making stuff up. If they were doing that, it would be to cut wages; layoffs are not part of it.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#104

Post by letitbeirie » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:49 PM UTC

justizin wrote: post #5

wufufufu wrote: post #2

Had me in the first half, lost me in the second. Why not try to create unions instead of "don't document anything because you're making yourself replaceable"?

This is called, "The Tyranny of Competence", and is hostile to other workers. Companies also don't have a way to quantify this, and sometimes will hesitate to term someone, until they are fed up and will just decide it is worthwhile at all costs. I have worked with or been the successor to folks who did this and it made me absolutely furious, and reflected poorly on my performance.

> hostile to other workers

It's also hostile to the practitioner if they last long enough at the same company.

I end up reinventing my "clever" (until I forget the context at least) hacks more often than I care to admit and I'm not actively trying to sabotage my company.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#105

Post by tpxl » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:51 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #74

andrepd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is adversarial (in a game theoretical sense). You are not doing any favours to the company and the company is not doing any favours to you; both are trying to extract as much value from the other as possible. Now if we were talking about a worker's co-operative (or any company where a significant portion of ownership laid with the workers), now that's a different story...

Smart businesses know that in order to prosper, you have to make win-win deals. Free market economies grow and prosper because people are making win-win deals. Win-lose deals are the path to poverty and misery.

The largest 'smart businesses' on the planet colluded to suppress wages.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#106

Post by nemo44x » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

My favorite part was the section that was bullet point after bullet point of horrible advice.

The 19th and early/mid 20th century lenses used in this blog post are just not relevant to todays tech worker. The labor theory of value simply doesn't apply in the world of power law distributions we are now in.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#107

Post by infamouscow » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #79

pdonis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with this article is that one does not need capital to start a tech company Yes, one does. One needs tech skills. Those are capital. (You agree with this since you say tech workers get more valuable with age and experience.) They're just not capital in the form of a large pot of cash that can be used to throw money at problems.

Skills are not capital assets.

Okay, so what are skills if not capital assets?

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#108

Post by nickff » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #99

nickff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're getting paid to work on something, it's not 'free labor', unless you're unable to leave. By behaving as if you've agreed to this undocumented arrangement, you've formed a 'constructive contract'.

That sounds to me like it’s just accounting spin. If I sell something with a 2-for-1 deal, what are the ways that’s different from selling two for 50% off? If I am paid to work 40 hours a week, and I work 80, are the second 40 free, or are all 80 %50 my expected wage? > free to leave Ah! I see we agree on the need for such a robust social safety net that employment isn’t any degree of necessary!

If your employer knowingly and willfully doubles your pay without changing the contract, are you stealing from them? I think not, and it's just the other side of the coin.

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#109

Post by nickff » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

darth_avocado wrote: post #98

nickff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're getting paid to work on something, it's not 'free labor', unless you're unable to leave. By behaving as if you've agreed to this undocumented arrangement, you've formed a 'constructive contract'.

No matter how you sugarcoat it, the extra hours you make people work for no extra increase in wages, is free labor. Just because you’re getting paid doesn’t mean the company doesn’t get free labor. The company paid for the regular hours and the rest was free labor.

What if you get a pay bump for no increase in hours? Is that free money?

Re: An Introduction to Class Warfare for the Software Engineer

#110

Post by shrimpx » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #74

andrepd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is adversarial (in a game theoretical sense). You are not doing any favours to the company and the company is not doing any favours to you; both are trying to extract as much value from the other as possible. Now if we were talking about a worker's co-operative (or any company where a significant portion of ownership laid with the workers), now that's a different story...

Smart businesses know that in order to prosper, you have to make win-win deals. Free market economies grow and prosper because people are making win-win deals. Win-lose deals are the path to poverty and misery.

That's precisely the point of the article. Tech companies are setting up a win-lose situation right now. They're pressing to control more capital at the expense of employees. Why would the employee maintain a win-win attitude, when the employer has switched to win-lose?