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All programming philosophies are about state

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Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#101

Post by xupybd »

sjm wrote: post #83
bcherny wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”

I really dislike this quote. It always comes across like it's designed to ease greedy people of their guilt for moving to the right as they earn more money. To me, being sound of mind is wanting everyone to have what you have, or at least an equal shot of getting there from wherever they had the roll of the dice of being born.

The quote is not nice and I don't blame anyone for taking issue with it. However I don't see people feeling any guilt as they move right. Nor do I see a need for greed to corelate with the right leaning politics. The same teachings that lead me to lean right also lead me to donate more than 10% of my income. I think all people that can should donate to charity but I don't think anyone should be forced to. I take issue with the idea that forcing others to give money is generosity.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#102

Post by wpietri »

xmonkee wrote: post #100
bcherny wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”

God, this is such condescending nonsense. The older I get, the more left I lean, because the more of the world you see the more you see what chaos our current ideology has wreaked upon it. The only people I see going the way this quote does are unthinking idiots who were fashionably "liberal" in their youth without understanding any political theory, and are now fashionably "conservative" with even lesser understandi…

Hard same. In some sense I don't think my values have changed much. I've always been dispositionally moderate and compassionate. Indeed, in a lot of ways I'm dispositionally conservative; for example, I'm a proud member of the Boring Technology Club. [1] (As the Christians say, "Test everything; hold fast to what is good.") But the older I get, the more my compassion and my curiosity drive me to see through the bullshit and to question the people who talk about being conservative but act to conserve the worst of our history, not the best of it. So although I remain a dedicated incrementalist, many would see me as increasingly radical.

[1] https://boringtechnology.club/

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#103

Post by wpietri »

dalmo3 wrote: post #98
MarkMarine wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a great 30 rock joke, being fiscally liberal and socially conservative. Politics is really just dividing up the shared resources, which is the root of that joke. Who cares about politics and doesn’t care about the resources part? I guess after 30 people forget how to share per that quote. Never happened to me though. Personally I don’t even think it’s accurate, in my life I’ve never seen people swing fr…

> fiscally liberal and socially conservative That's top left on the political compass... Is that not a thing in the US?

Not in conception, no. One could argue it exists in practice, though, in the "deficit-funded tax cuts for the rich" crowd.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#104

Post by noman-land »

kazinator wrote: post #73

Imperative: modifying state is the point of a bit-flipping machine; get out of my way so I can have fun! OOP: OK, I mostly had enough fun, can we try to tame the bit-flipping chaos with real-world analogies, without deflating all the fun? Functional: Any Monad is by definition an Endofunctor, which also means it's an object in the category of Endofunctors, where the monadic μ(flatMap) and η(unit) operators satisfy th…

This made me laugh. Especially because I've read that exact monad snippet before and had several wtf moments in rapid succession.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#106

Post by msla »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #6

i want to see someone elaborate a state-maximizing, instead of state-minimizing, philosophy. lean in

Assembly language, where most opcodes in a given application are concerned with moving data around and every opcode (including the no-op) mutates at least one register, in that the no-op causes the program counter to advance even if it does absolutely nothing else.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#108

Post by anonymouskimmer »

manmal wrote: post #42
epgui wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not orthogonal. I believe one is a subset of the other, but at a minimum they overlap.

Using extremes for both, that would mean there is overlap between languages like Haskell and languages like SQL? (Edited for clarity)

I'm a biologist that doesn't understand what's being talked about on this thread at all (a definition of "state", and its relation to other computational parameters would be nice). But I think I can pull an analogy from ecology that might be useful here.

When a bird population starts speciating along, say, the arctic circle, you have a line of a bunch of closely related sub-species that can interbreed with the sub-species nearest them.

Sub-species 1 ... Sub-species 2 ... Sub-species 3 ... Sub-species 4 ...

1 can breed with 2. 2 can breed with 1 and 3. 2 can't breed with 4 because they are too far apart, but if a 4 came to the territory of a 2 they could breed. Etcetera.

Eventually You get a whole circle of interbreedable sub-species as they spread across a circle of arctic latitude around the world:

1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... 6 ... 7 ... 8 ... 9 ... 1

But once you get to that point you find that sub-species 9 and sub-species 1 can't, or won't, interbreed anymore. They are now two entirely separate species despite coming from the same origin and living right next to each other.

However none of them can interbreed with a complete separate lineage, such as wolves.

TLDR: The overlap is before the extremes, not between them.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#109

Post by JenrHywy »

sjm wrote: post #83
bcherny wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”

I really dislike this quote. It always comes across like it's designed to ease greedy people of their guilt for moving to the right as they earn more money. To me, being sound of mind is wanting everyone to have what you have, or at least an equal shot of getting there from wherever they had the roll of the dice of being born.

To interpret the quote charitably, I think it's more that age can come with an appreciation with the fragility of society, the recognition that it's a miracle it works at all, and a humility about how much and how rapidly a system can be changed without being destroyed.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#110

Post by [deleted] »

xupybd wrote: post #101
sjm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike this quote. It always comes across like it's designed to ease greedy people of their guilt for moving to the right as they earn more money. To me, being sound of mind is wanting everyone to have what you have, or at least an equal shot of getting there from wherever they had the roll of the dice of being born.

The quote is not nice and I don't blame anyone for taking issue with it. However I don't see people feeling any guilt as they move right. Nor do I see a need for greed to corelate with the right leaning politics. The same teachings that lead me to lean right also lead me to donate more than 10% of my income. I think all people that can should donate to charity but I don't think anyone should be forced to. I take issu…

[deleted]
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