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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#101
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a "Senior Engineer" for over 10 years now.

I work on internal web applications at a company who sells a physical product (read: not a tech company). I started the job when I was in my late 20s and my title was "Senior Something-or-other". Around the time I started, I told that to someone who works outside IT and their immediate response was, "You don't look very senior." Yeah, tell me about it.

What do those apps do?

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#102
post #26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

> the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner. Unionization is a great way of solving disputes. Many big corporations need to be counter-weight with some other big organization. To put violence and unions at the same level seems uncalled for.

Unionization can have serious problems/risks. I this case, where the business is literally breaking the law, there is no need to get a union involved.

Wage theft is illegal. It should be treated as a legal issue where the state gets involved and uses its monopoly on force to enforce the law. That's what the state is there for.

[Aside, putting violence at the same level as unions: I've been around a union, while working in a factory in the midwest US, that had "kneebreakers" that "encouraged" members to vote a certain way by threat-of-force, support certain candidates for union leadership, and used the Union to blatantly extort local businesses and politicians. Not every union is like this, but blue-collar unions in the US have a history of going this way. Which, even tho I like unionization in theory and cheer a bit inside when I see union action at e.g Starbucks or Amazon, I have seen a very terrible union and so they scare me.]

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#103
post #72
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

Unionization is amazing. I do not know why especially people in US are so against this. Did they just gave up and are okay with the big corps fucking them over withouth having any leverage?

more than a hundred years ago, the USA was not a large world power.. more than half the country was frontier and a lot of raw agriculture that is dependent on labor. When the 'red' social flames burned through Europe at the end of the Great Monarchies, political people here in the USA were seriously worried. So an ugly deal was forged.. the hardcore lefts were jailed and harassed and beaten.. and insider right wing groups that knew how to play for the long term were elevated to power. This is not popular to say, but the history is there for the reading, about ethnic gangsters running unions across the USA. It never was completely cleared up and persisted well into the 1970s and perhaps later.. The public relations campaign by Big Media was very effective at smearing the name of Unions to the public, and the Unions made some dumb moves, too.

High tech and Hollywood generated huge money, and Wall Street style money was always anti-Union. It is worth saying that Hollywood movie production is very heavily unionized, and that small system works pretty well.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#104
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

> I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. "Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles" is fraud. If you do not like unions because ONE did something that you do not like , how much do you hate companies were you have thousands of examples of bad…

>If you do not like unions because ONE did something that you do not like

Not the person you are replying to, but I think discounting the behavior of unions as one-off is not helping. The examples I have are from outside US though - there are entire states where union presence is strong. Those states had a good industrial sector but over several decades the unions made it so problematic for the industries there that majority of businesses moved to states where there were no unions. Public calls for "strikes" and other work-stopping behavior and violence is common occurence in those states. So the risk of a union becoming mafia-like is more than just propaganda - it has plenty of examples worldwide in several countries.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#105
post #39
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner. Unionization is a great way of solving disputes. Many big corporations need to be counter-weight with some other big organization. To put violence and unions at the same level seems uncalled for.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

You can simply step back and watch what is taking place in Canada right now.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-union-wants-4...

Because it is not going anywhere, they had an independent body get involved, their commentary says it all:

"The union’s proposals “do not appear realistic for what should be a fairly advanced stage of negotiations. The numerous proposals are not focused and they would result in an increase to compensation far beyond what is reasonable,” reads the unanimous report signed by three commissioners."

These same union employees are also fighting "unilateral contract changes" that mandates they return to the office, but did not fight the unilateral contract changes that allowed them to WFH in the first place?

The contract they signed was for "IN_PERSON" work, so they are simply being asked to do what they signed up for prior to COVID.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#106
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

What do unions have to do with small government? A union contract is an agreement between two private parties.

[deleted]

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#107
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I am more suspicious of public sector unions than private. The power of private sector unions is counterbalanced by the profit motive of the company; meanwhile governments are often perfectly happy wasting a fortune in taxpayer dollars.

To the extent that the government wastes money, why should we believe that's due to a union and not unrelated issues such as outside politics?

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-union-wants-4...

You tell us, is a 47% increase in pay "normal"?

why did the body intended to help with the negotiations write this:

The union’s proposals “do not appear realistic for what should be a fairly advanced stage of negotiations. The numerous proposals are not focused and they would result in an increase to compensation far beyond what is reasonable,” reads the unanimous report signed by three commissioners.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#108

I worked at a university in Florida that did this to me. I was being made to work overtime on a few software projects and making a nice little amount of extra money. Then one day I found out that I was being "promoted" to a manager title. No raise or any extra benefits, but I was no longer allowed to get overtime. It was part of a campus-wide initiative to cut costs. And now that I was a manager I was expected to wor…

Just curious: are you able to refuse a promotion. Especially this kind of “promotion”? What happens then? Do you get fired because… reasons or do you just keep your current job title etc?

If you're employed "at will" (and almost everyone in the US is) you can't refuse "promotions." From the company's perspective they are deciding to no longer employ you for position a, but they are simultaneously offering to employ you for position b. You can take it or leave it.

Employment "at will" means either the employer or employee can end the relationship at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#109

Much like how coders like to call themselves "engineers" - a term that has actual accreditation and certifications attached to it, but somehow not in the computer science space, weird.

Eh, it's pretty nuanced. Certification, rigor, and lots of other things that software folks associate with "real" engineering aren't actually that different between software and traditional engineering projects. I recommend checking out Hillel Wayne's series where he interviews what he calls "crossovers", people that worked both in software and in traditional engineering: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/we-are-not-s…

Thank you for the earnest reply to my snarky comment. I'll check out that series!

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#110
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent that the government wastes money, why should we believe that's due to a union and not unrelated issues such as outside politics?

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-union-wants-4... You tell us, is a 47% increase in pay "normal"? why did the body intended to help with the negotiations write this: The union’s proposals “do not appear realistic for what should be a fairly advanced stage of negotiations. The numerous proposals are not focused and they would result in an increase to compensation far beyond what is reasonable,” reads the…

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Beyond his political vision, Black attempted to compete directly with Kenneth Thomson's media empire led in Canada by The Globe and Mail, which Black and many others perceived as the platform of the Liberal establishment.

--wikipedia

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