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How transportation technologies shaped empires

unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com

101–110 of 313 posts

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#101
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we forget about the existence of the control case: Canada. Is it though? England did lose Canada to home-rule. In fact, I contend that a major reason why a newly independent (but also broke and fledgling) Canada was not annexed by the US was mainly because of the American preoccupation with civil war and Reconstruction, and the diplomatic efforts of John A. Macdonald.

They lost it to home rule only after it took less than a month to travel there with steam ships, right?

The point was they couldn't hold the Canadian colony. Britain didn't give home-rule to Canada because of their good-will. American belligerence towards European presence in the New World, and their rise as a major military and economic power, made holding Canada practically impossible by the mid 1800s (for example, it was untannable for Britain to maintain a large military presence in Canada anymore). Britain fully expected Canada to be annexed. Without the civil war and reconstruction preoccupying Americans during the critical early and fledgling years of the Canadian Dominion, I don't think Canada would have survived as a nation.

In another thread, I also made an argument for another major mitigating factor with respect to Americas, namely, the native populations were wiped out by old-world diseases which prevented local rebellions from succeeding and allowed Europeans to establish large population centers.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#103

Portugal conquered Goa in 1510 -- that's more than a month of travel. The Netherlands conquering Java in 1619? A lot more than a month. And these conquests lasted for centuries.

> The Netherlands conquering Java in 1619? A lot more than a month.

For practical purposes this was more the VOC than the Netherlands. Similar situation with British India until they killed off the British East India Company; before that, well, you could call it an empire, but it was really more a separate country ruled by a _company_.

Goa is probably a better counterexample, granted.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#107
A lot of counter-cases are conflating specific conquests with the the overall empire. There will be exceptions (in both directions of closer & further) but I think what the author is trying to do is set the radius of the empire, relative to a one or a few epicenters. I don't think the exact value is that important vs. the logistical impacts of distance and their influence on all aspects of controlling a geopolitical entity.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#109
I feel like there's some cherry picking going on. I mean, issues with germanic tribes and inland conquests did play a role but... what about upper egypt, paetrea, britannia, etc. The edge of the empire was the edge of the empire... with frontier problems. Why did germania fail, but not those other ones.

I mean size is an issue. Travel & messaging are issues. Empires are very much defined by these things, etc. I just don't see where the clear watershed is.

Early modern european empires colonized the americas, SE Asia, the african coast... Those were months of treacherous sailing. "Empire" in those cases meant something totally different than for Rome. Rome marched in with troops and took political control. Portugal & the Dutch, England and such established small colonies that grew in power until they were hegemons. Sometimes just a small port or town.

Anyway... I think Rome's limiting factor in germania and the european frontier was barbarism. NW europeans didn't have civilization: states, monarchies, temples, senates, roads, nations. The germans didn't even know they were germans until Romans told them. Rome's empire was based on assuming political control over existing political institutions. It's economy was dependant on this approach. Rome's African and Asian territories had been civilized for Millenia. Jerusalem, Carthage, Luxor, etc. Europe had no cities. How do you tax?

In northern europe, arabia and such Rome's empire looked like the early days of early modern colonialism. Slave export & frontier plantations supporting a Roman villa lifestyle for a small number of colonists. Most of the natives didn't pay tax, or participate in Roman life.

Egypt, under rome, shipped grain to the capital and enriched Roman officials. In "the colonies," it worked in reverse. Rome had to ship them soldiers and money to keep the colony going.

Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires

#110
post #3

The logic seems sound to me, with a few obvious caveats: * The number of samples is small. There aren't a lot of empires throughout history. * The definition of "empire" is somewhat subjective, because empire sizes exhibit a Zipf distribution, and the cutoff is arbitrary. * Surely there have been other factors at play besides time to travel from the capital. One implication is that empires that span the globe are muc…

> empires that span the globe are much more feasible today

A lot of people would argue that ~half the world is part of the US empire today...

In that the US has power to strongly influence/make decisions in about half the world, extradite people from about half the world, and enforce IP/anti drug/monetary controls in about half the world.

And by some definitions, it might be 80% of the world.

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