Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs • Hacker News Board

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#101

Post by alexdoesstuff » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #93

fellerts wrote: post #11

Who is the target audience for something like this? I'm not sure anybody is going to pay to have Apple's ToS simplified before clicking "agree". On the other hand, if you are squinting at a contract that actually matters, I don't think a service like this gives sufficient understanding of what all that legalese would actually mean if shit hits the fan. For example, changing the applicable law in a contract can yield…

I assume lawyers could benefit from a tool that can summarize a large document rapidly. They’re often faced with thousands of pages of documents, and in large class actions possibly hundreds of thousands to millions.

I imagine for use cases such as class action there may be a place for AI to effectively extract information from hundreds or thousands of similar but slightly different contracts. Same goes for other such situations, such as commercial landlords with significant rent portfolios, investors/banks with loan terms, or even investors more easily understanding the difference between various bond and/or loan terms.

One of the key advantages of the recent advances in AI/ML to me is that it allows users to more efficiently extract unstructured information.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#102

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #93

fellerts wrote: post #11

Who is the target audience for something like this? I'm not sure anybody is going to pay to have Apple's ToS simplified before clicking "agree". On the other hand, if you are squinting at a contract that actually matters, I don't think a service like this gives sufficient understanding of what all that legalese would actually mean if shit hits the fan. For example, changing the applicable law in a contract can yield…

I assume lawyers could benefit from a tool that can summarize a large document rapidly. They’re often faced with thousands of pages of documents, and in large class actions possibly hundreds of thousands to millions.

[deleted]

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#103

Post by freejazz » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #76

Shpigford wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also would want a lawyer to take a look. Hence the note saying to talk to a lawyer. ;) The reality is, even knowing what to ask a lawyer can be difficult and it's not economically viable to ask a lawyer to summarize a 100-page legal document into text you can wrap your head around. Detangle just helps give some clarity so that you can further a conversation with a lawyer, or even just ask for clarification from the…

> The reality is, even knowing what to ask a lawyer can be difficult and it's not economically viable to ask a lawyer to summarize a 100-page legal document into text you can wrap your head around. A 100 page legal document (i.e. one with lots of stuff implied by structure and lots of specific subconditions and lots of case-specific stuff that might make more sense in conjunction with the examples in the appendix) so…

The AI couldn't even get the directionality of the first paragraph of the YCombinator SAFE, it's in this thread.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#104

Post by kkielhofner » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

freejazz wrote: post #96

kkielhofner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with (and paid invoices from) several top-tier international > 500 attorney firms and if that's what you're effectively paying for junior associate time you need to look elsewhere. For rate sheet time that's still too much and negotiating down legal invoices is just about the best use of time from a cost-benefit standpoint.

They are probably not the top tier biglaw firm if they are charging less than $400/hr for associate time. S&C charges over $800/hr for associate time.

On one engagement, for example, the firm and project I was working with/on was doing high stakes IP work for a FAANG. Every attorney I've worked with graduated from a top 15 law school (majority being top 10). If that's not top-tier then I'll concede I don't know what is.

We started talking about the quality and pricing of a ChatGPT bot and ended up here... Point is, given the pricing of Detangle ($10/page) you could hire an attorney down the street with any amount of experience in contract law to review an agreement with better results at equivalent (or cheaper) pricing. At the current state of ChatGPT a paralegal or some random cousin in law school would be better.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#105

Post by freejazz » Wed, Jan 04, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

kkielhofner wrote: post #104

freejazz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are probably not the top tier biglaw firm if they are charging less than $400/hr for associate time. S&C charges over $800/hr for associate time.

On one engagement, for example, the firm and project I was working with/on was doing high stakes IP work for a FAANG. Every attorney I've worked with graduated from a top 15 law school (majority being top 10). If that's not top-tier then I'll concede I don't know what is. We started talking about the quality and pricing of a ChatGPT bot and ended up here... Point is, given the pricing of Detangle ($10/page) you could…

I totally agree, I'm just pointing out that at $400/hr that's a huge discount on a "top tier" firm. I'm not at a biglaw firm and I'm an associate and my time is 50% more than that and I don't work for faangs!