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Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

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Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#101

Post by falcolas »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #27
analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

Snow tires are great but they really don't help with ice. The only reliable ice traction in my experience are tire chains or studs.

Get sypes cut in them. Makes a noticeable difference on ice.

It won’t help with wet ice, but nothing really does. I’ve watched a truck in chains slide on that mess.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#102

Post by ynniv »

Gwypaas wrote: post #98
c0nsumer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, in Michigan studded tires are illegal for on-road use in the Lower Peninsula. But they are legal in the Upper Peninsula. That said, I strongly disagree with you about AWD. It makes a tremendous difference for control in general in all winter conditions. Adding snow tires to AWD and things are just excellent and way more predictable.

AWD really does nothing, it helps with acceleration but that is the easy part. The hard part is slowing down and all cars brake using all 4 wheels. You don't brake better with an AWD car. Well, except if you have learned to drive using 4 wheel slides like a rally driver. Then I sincerely hope you lose your license before your endangerment of others lead to an accident.

I used to drive a RWD BMW in the snow, and it seems lost on people that all cars have four wheel braking. All you need are decent snow tires.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#103

Post by sandworm101 »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #32
analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

FYI there is a new category of tire called "all weather", which have the little mountain-snowflake symbol used for snow tires. They're basically all-seasons rated for snow. I haven't seen a comparison against pure snow tires, but they do perform much better than all-seasons in snow.

>> They're basically all-seasons rated for snow.

Ya. They are the bare minimum to qualify for that label. They are essentially the worse snow tires that can still be called snow tires. It's all marketing hype, which becomes dangerous when stupid people rely upon it to make safety decisions.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#104

Post by sandworm101 »

sethammons wrote: post #77
Tor3 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4,…

> All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action What are you on about? Living in Montana, AWD is dramatically better than 4WD. And winter tires are great. We never used them on one of our AWDs because the AWD is so dang good. Snow tires were absolutely required on our 4WD and 2WD cars. AWD or snow tires, I am mindful of stopping distance. I wil…

Winter driving cover a broad range of conditions, from "I see snowflakes" to "are we still on a road?" Alleged "snow tires" that are good enough in the former can be next to useless in the later.

I helped an AWD SUV/crossover thing ten feet off the road a couple weeks ago. It was in very deep fluffy/dry snow, half on its side, sitting its weight on the snow rather than the tires. Only one wheel actually turned (front left). The AWD/TC system was literally out of its depth. 4WD, potentially with locking diffs, would not have had that problem. Once we pulled it enough to get some weight on the wheels, the AWD system kicked in and helped drive it back onto the road.

The guy had what he thought were snow tires (snowflake mountain symbol) but looking at the treads myself I didn't see the small grooves that imho are typical of proper snow tires. They looked like all seasons perhaps with some extra silicon to qualify for the badge.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#105

Post by illuminerdy »

falcolas wrote: post #100
supermatt wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which manufacturer is using AWD incorrectly?

Dodge. They call their Charger implementation AWD, but it’s RWD only until a slip, then it engages the front axel. They fooled me, and it drove like crap on snow. Always wanted to slide.

[dead]

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#106

Post by roflyear »

mattmaroon wrote: post #31
riley_dog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a common statement from people who don't own winter tires.

I own winter tires and he’s right. They’re not a marked improvement on just ice. You’re normally not on just ice a lot though thankfully.

Real winter tires? Because quality winter tires are awesome on ice.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#107

Post by bell-cot »

alkonaut wrote: post #60
analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

I never understood the opposition to good winter tires. Apart from the chore of shifting, and the added investment of an extra set of rims (usually), the cost of the tires isn't any larger over the long term. You wear two sets of tires interchangably so they last longer.

> I never understood the opposition to good winter tires...

Hope-springs-eternal denial. And quite a few people don't figure that they'll stay with the same car (and/or live in the same climate) long enough for the "interchangeably so they last longer" thing to pay off.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#108

Post by supermatt »

bombcar wrote: post #94
supermatt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually... 4x4 is worse for going downhill on ice. If one axle loses traction (which would be much more likely on summer tyres), the other can initiate a slide. This is the exact reason people dont like 4x4 on ice. AWD (usually) lessens the problem - which is why i said they absolutely help with the correct tyres. And again - DONT SLOW DOWN when going down hill. Your brakes WILL lock a wheel and you WILL slide.…

Yeah 4xAWD (let’s piss everyone off) helps maintain action when you’re driving IN the snow (you have a slightly better chance of not getting stuck if you can power all your wheels and have appropriately calibrated antislip). But losing control because of ice can happen no matter how many driven or traction control wheels you have. And all wheels are basically skis when you’re skidding at 90° to the direction of trave…

> In fact, in some skids front wheel drive will be the best as at least you have a chance of powersteering out.

Yep, this is actually why AWD is (usually) better than 4WD, because it can drive the single axle, treating it as a 2WD.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#109

Post by sandworm101 »

alkonaut wrote: post #66
supermatt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really - AWD is effectively non-braking traction control by varying the power distribution to each axle (and on some modern electric drivetrains, each wheel). 4wd provides constant power to both axles.

I think of it more as an outdated distinction. First of all with motors on each wheel and no communication between front/rear in many cases, the distinction becomes blurry. Further many manufacturers have names like “AWD” (volvo and others) or “4matic” (MB) or “4motion” (VW) to label their take on more-than-2wd, whether or not their variant is awd or 4WD (or both) in the traditional sense. Some "AWD" models will be e…

>> First of all with motors on each wheel and no communication between front/rear in many cases, the distinction becomes blurry.

Which cars have motors on each wheel? That is maybe 0.01% of vehicles on the road. (Electric busses?) And even then, AWD/FWD distinctions can matter in how those motors interact. Electric or IC, so long as power is delivered through four wheels there will be different styles and techniques for balancing that power for whatever reasons occur at a particular time.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#110

Post by krupan »

sandworm101 wrote: post #104
sethammons wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action What are you on about? Living in Montana, AWD is dramatically better than 4WD. And winter tires are great. We never used them on one of our AWDs because the AWD is so dang good. Snow tires were absolutely required on our 4WD and 2WD cars. AWD or snow tires, I am mindful of stopping distance. I wil…

Winter driving cover a broad range of conditions, from "I see snowflakes" to "are we still on a road?" Alleged "snow tires" that are good enough in the former can be next to useless in the later. I helped an AWD SUV/crossover thing ten feet off the road a couple weeks ago. It was in very deep fluffy/dry snow, half on its side, sitting its weight on the snow rather than the tires. Only one wheel actually turned (front…

If the weight of the vehicle is not on the wheels then locking diffs or snow tires won't help. If you are high centered you are high centered and you have to solve that problem first.
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