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Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#101

Post by raffraffraff »

nkrisc wrote: post #81
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #4

In the past 12 months I’ve gone from having normal male levels of testosterone and estrogen to having normal female levels of both. It’s truly amazing and wonderful that we can do this, and I’ve learned so much from the experience. It’s hard to describe the changes precisely, but I’m finding that women make more sense to me and are more interesting to talk to, while I have a lower tolerance for men trying to act toug…

> I hope that more people do this and share the experience. Everyone needs to hear this story. Surely you meant people who desire to transition? If I could have that experience in a completely temporary way without messing up my hormones, I might. But I like being a man and don’t want to mess up my health just to experience that. It’s not the same as recommending more people try meditation or volunteering with disabl…

Men: it's ok for you to sew, cook, cry, appreciate beauty etc. You don't need to take HRT to experience it. You just need to ignore the macho expectations that some people have of you. End transmission.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#102

Post by CWuestefeld »

iiioii wrote: post #44
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #4

In the past 12 months I’ve gone from having normal male levels of testosterone and estrogen to having normal female levels of both. It’s truly amazing and wonderful that we can do this, and I’ve learned so much from the experience. It’s hard to describe the changes precisely, but I’m finding that women make more sense to me and are more interesting to talk to, while I have a lower tolerance for men trying to act toug…

> I've also started experiencing monthly cycles where for about one week a month I feel more tired and weepy like I could cry very easily This sounds like wishful thinking to me. In women, the periodic mood changes happen during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle, and coincide with the rise in progesterone that is triggered by ovulation. Males don't have ovaries, so do not ovulate, and thus cannot experience the…

I also note the part about "I’ve felt like my emotions have gotten stronger except for anger."

So far as I'm aware, there's zero evidence that women's emotions are stronger (what would that even mean?), and certainly not that while the other emotions are stronger, anger is excepted. I'm pretty certain that women experience anger just as strongly as men.

As mentioned down-thread, this could be placebo. But there are also lots of other potential explanations, ranging from the simple passage of time, maturation, and aging, to immense relief at having achieved their transition, and so on.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#103

Post by unwise-exe »

ruszki wrote: post #7

Is there anything in real life which you divide in two groups you wouldn’t get differences in some metrics on average? I’ve never heard anybody who thought that there was no differences in women and men behaviours on average.

> I’ve never heard anybody who thought that there was no differences in women and men behaviours on average.

It usually takes the form of insisting that underrepresentation of women in $profession is proof of discrimination and/or a hostile environment.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#104

Post by pessimizer »

Taking sex differences in personality seriously involves taking the reality seriously that women are treated radically differently than men in almost every society on earth, and that radical difference is generally that women are a permanent lower caste, and are victims of violence far more than they are perpetrators of violence.

These goofy exercises in the eugenics of common sense and the obvious all require us to believe that if I raise one mouse in a dark 6 in^3 wooden box, and let another mouse run free (or even in a different kind of box), that at the end of that process I should still have two identical mice. The fact that men and women have different personalities and cultures is no more necessarily genetic than the fact that the English and the French speak entirely different languages.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#105

Post by dsfyu404ed »

alangibson wrote: post #94
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #79

It’s truly shocking but it turns out our eyes aren’t lying and reality is true.

Our eyes lie all the time and experience is wide open to interpretation. That's why we have science so we can objectively and progressively determine what is true and what is not. Relying on our gut like our ancestors, who for example believed in the obvious reality of witches, is the best way to be ignorant of what is really true.

This is not a good faith argument. Nobody needed nutritional science to tell them a malnourished mule didn't do mule things very well, physics to tell them water flowed downhill, etc. People of the past believed in witches and superstition for things their senses, experiences and intuition could not explain. Likewise the achievements in science have mostly been in explaining what we can't observe with human hardware. For example replacing miasma theory with germ theory, understanding and harnessing electromagnetism, etc.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#106

Post by CWuestefeld »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #48
hawski wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No basis. OP gave one anecdote, I gave another one. They seem to contradict each other. That's my point - they are both just anecdotes.

No, one is a form of natural experiment (changing the hormone profile of a single person who can compare the causal effects). The other is an assumption that someone's observed characteristics are caused by one particular hormone level, with no evidence to support that. You could attribute her height and preference for fatty fish to her T levels too, if you strained hard enough.

It's not a very well-designed experiment. Aside from changing hormone levels, there's a slew of other variables: Relief at having achieved their transition, aging and maturation, actual memory of past feelings and experiences, and so on. Further, simply using one's self-reported perceptions doesn't provide a very secure footing for a serious result. Sure, use it to drive curiosity and do further experiments. But don't believe your deriving too much "truth" at this point.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#107

Post by [deleted] »

alangibson wrote: post #94
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #79

It’s truly shocking but it turns out our eyes aren’t lying and reality is true.

Our eyes lie all the time and experience is wide open to interpretation. That's why we have science so we can objectively and progressively determine what is true and what is not. Relying on our gut like our ancestors, who for example believed in the obvious reality of witches, is the best way to be ignorant of what is really true.

[deleted]

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#108

Post by AstixAndBelix »

raffraffraff wrote: post #101
nkrisc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope that more people do this and share the experience. Everyone needs to hear this story. Surely you meant people who desire to transition? If I could have that experience in a completely temporary way without messing up my hormones, I might. But I like being a man and don’t want to mess up my health just to experience that. It’s not the same as recommending more people try meditation or volunteering with disabl…

Men: it's ok for you to sew, cook, cry, appreciate beauty etc. You don't need to take HRT to experience it. You just need to ignore the macho expectations that some people have of you. End transmission.

Are you implying those are womenly activities? How is crying and cooking going to help me understand how women think and behave?

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#109

Post by sandworm101 »

alangibson wrote: post #94
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #79

It’s truly shocking but it turns out our eyes aren’t lying and reality is true.

Our eyes lie all the time and experience is wide open to interpretation. That's why we have science so we can objectively and progressively determine what is true and what is not. Relying on our gut like our ancestors, who for example believed in the obvious reality of witches, is the best way to be ignorant of what is really true.

Witches were and are real. I know some personally. You may be refering to their alleged supernatural abilities, which are no more real or unreal than the prayers and rituals of any other religion. Some of the greatest scientists of all time were also alchemists and spiritualists, borderline witchcraft imho.

Re: Taking Sex Differences in Personality Seriously (2019)

#110

Post by newaccount74 »

pessimizer wrote: post #104

Taking sex differences in personality seriously involves taking the reality seriously that women are treated radically differently than men in almost every society on earth, and that radical difference is generally that women are a permanent lower caste, and are victims of violence far more than they are perpetrators of violence. These goofy exercises in the eugenics of common sense and the obvious all require us to…

I remember the day that my 3 year old son took his Elsa doll to Kindergarten. I don't know what they said to him, but after that day he declared his favorite color is now black and he no longer wanted the doll.

I'm sure there are some genetic sex differences, but looking at the huge difference in how society treats kids from the youngest age on, I'm going to say it's very hard to differentiate between genetic vs. society.

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