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An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

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Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#101

Post by kshahkshah »

aliqot wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

I think you've gotten downvoted because it wasn't true when Rails 1.2.0 was released on Ruby 1.8, it wasn't true 10 years ago, it wasn't true 5 years ago and it still isn't true today. It's a meme, a synthetic reputation, one based in FUD, with nothing to back it up. Countless businesses have been built on Rails. All successful code regardless of language and framework evolves to fit emerging needs.

Also, the onus isn't on any community to 'prove' to outsiders that their thing can meet the demands of skeptics. It never will, they will find another reason, and then another one after that to fuel their FUD.

So when you write what you did in this thread you're not really, in my view, contributing to the conversation. You're just repeating something you've heard and this far in, it just feels grating.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#102

Post by fknorangesite »

dwheeler wrote: post #71
fknorangesite wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this joke is five or six years out of date (maybe more?). Nokogiri has been a breeze to install for a long time now.

I used nokogiri in Ruby on Rails in 2015 and since, and have never had a problem installing nokogiri.

Exactly. It did used to be pretty finicky, but yeah I think it was 2015ish that those issues were fixed.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#103

Post by pantulis »

aliqot wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

I am curious, what do you think is what holds Rails from being useful for going beyond the MVP. In 15 years I've seen my fair share of Rails projects going to production and keep evolving with the business, and not in the startup world.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#104

Post by pantulis »

jamie_ca wrote: post #83
bboylen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so nice about Elixir/Phoenix? I understand that it is functional, which seems neat, but how does that translate into better app development?

I don't have a lot of direct experience, but one of the big draws is that by running on top of OTP you get a lot of stuff for free that you'd otherwise need to hit external dependencies for. Caching and background job management that usually see you pull in Redis are the common call-outs. Also, Phoenix LiveView is absolute voodoo magic the first time you experience it.

Also, performance is mind-blowing.

Still I am not really sure that the tradeoff makes it worth against non-FP frameworks a la Rails.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#105

Post by wiseowise »

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #26
brink wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the general vibe on RoR nowadays? Most people that use it are fine and productive. Because of lazy evaluation, type issues persist though. Plenty of instances of trying to call string methods on integers, and array methods on nil, and Rails devs in denial that that's a big problem as the app continues to grow.

I don't think it's denial - I've worked on a ton of rails apps of all different sizes and scales and...I've gotta say, I just don't see the issues you name in production all that often. It's a problem, but it's not a big problem.

It’s not a big problem until it is.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#106

Post by fishtoaster »

jai_ wrote: post #82
fishtoaster wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that there are two ways to use rails: 1. Your frontend js needs are pretty minimal and you don't want something approaching a single-page app. In this case, you lean into Turbo and Stimulus to have rails do most things for you that would previously have been done with some a heavy-weight react-based frontend. 2. Your frontend js needs are significant and you do want a single-page app. In this case, i…

I think your point (1) doesn't really match with what the rails devs expect. 37Signals have both their Basecamp and Hey.com products which act very much like a single page app but only using Turbo and Stimulus. I think the rails devs believe that single page apps are overused and the majority of functionality can be done using just the provided tools.

Yeah, the ruby community has a bit of an axe to grind with SPAs. Opinions range from the defensible ("JS is a bit overused, sometimes pure serverside rendering like Rails does is all you need") to the imo-ridiculous ("Pretty much no one needs an SPA and the whole frontend JS world is a passing fad").

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#107

Post by riffraff »

shafyy wrote: post #93
mike1o1 wrote: post #67

I love Rails and how simple and boring[0] it is, and appreciate how it keeps evolving and growing. I've dabbled with some Javascript frameworks and Elixir/Phoenix, but always come back to Rails and forget just how fast and productive I can be. A lot of people complain about it, but I feel like Active Record just can't be beat, and helps me feel so productive. Add Stimulus and Turbo and the level of UI fidelity possib…

I love how they focus on simplicity and are not afraid to cut stuff out. Often times, software projects get more complicated over time. Rails seems to get simpler.

it has added stuff (attachments, some wysiwyg editor, docker support) while removing other. It's neither getting smaller nor bigger, it just "moves" (maybe following Basecamp's needs).

Which is (arguably) a good thing.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#108

Post by mike1o1 »

stevebmark wrote: post #46

> Later in the year, Rails retired Webpacker Is Rails anti Typescript? It’s weird to see most other JS environments move to Typescript by default, while Rails now now ignores the ability to use it without jumping through hoops.

I just started a new Rails app for a side project and while Webpacker has been retired, there are still options for Typescript. For example, I'm using esbuild and it works with Typescript out of the box - no hoops to jump through.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#109

Post by riffraff »

orf wrote: post #51
ohbarye wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment describes well. https://github.com/rails/rails/pull/45553#issuecomment-11795...

I read that comment, but unless you know Ruby most of the specifics are meaningless

think of pattern matching being implemented via methods on an object which return a hash/array (deconstruct and deconstruct_keys).

ActiveRecord objects wrap an hash of attributes, but are also normal objects which have instance variables and methods plus some hooks and specific API that can be expected to be overriden.

So it's unclear how the method should behave: just read from the hash? Invoke some specific method? Invoke any method?

The answer may be non obvious.

Re: An Overview Of Upcoming Ruby on Rails 7.1 Features Part 1

#110

Post by jcpst »

chrisbaker98 wrote: post #36
brntsllvn wrote: post #2

I was a devoted rails fan 10 years ago, but haven't looked back since full stack typescript. What's the general vibe on RoR nowadays?

Switched to Elixir/Phoenix a few years ago and have never looked back. Absolutely a 100% improvement on Rails in every way (except the availability of work!)

I revisited rails this past week for the first time in nearly 10 years. So much easier to quickly develop an app on than what I have been doing. I feel done with the whole SPA thing unless there's no other way to build the app.

But now I'm looking at performance, and memory usage, and phoenix looks very appealing from that side.

Now I think I should try pheonix, since both rails and phoenix are new to me, so I can compare.

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