3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released. • Hacker News Board

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#101

Post by eropple » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 3:44 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #95

TomOfTTB wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they could, and are discussing doing, is defining Hacking as terrorism. I heard this from my own congressman's mouth and that's why this scares me. Because there were a log of Senators and Congressman subscribed to Stratfor and this is exactly the type of incident that might push them to act.

> What they could, and are discussing doing, is defining Hacking as terrorism. I heard this from my own congressman's mouth and that's why this scares me. Because there were a log of Senators and Congressman subscribed to Stratfor and this is exactly the type of incident that might push them to act. I'm not a US citizen and I don't live in the States, even though I am a huge admirer of how your political system was f…

He's not saying he's scared of "terrorism", he's scared that they'll call it terrorism and use it as a club against People They Don't Like.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#102

Post by forensic » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:02 AM UTC

Stratfor is not much more than a small news organization. Why would a news company have secret intelligence from the "world's most powerful men"?

They are in the business of publishing everything they know -- that's how they get paid! Their info is not secret. Anyone who emails them is trying to get info RELEASED, not hide it!

They certainly have secret informants, but why do you want to compromise informants who are willing to work with the press? What does that solve?

Dick Cheney does not send emails to Stratfor. He's not stupid!

This whole operation is just another demonstration that Anonymous only targets low hanging fruit. They tried hacking the NYT but their security was too good. They tried hacking the Pentagon but hopelessly failed. So they decided to hack a small (high-quality) news company with 70 employees, that reports exclusively on global affairs.

Now they are going to reveal Stratfor's sources and get people killed, just like they did in the Mexico affair.

This isn't an achievement, it's just showing off. I doubt they are going to find much and the victims of this release are not going to be anyone in powerful positions. Rather it will be informants like Gaddafi's Butler who will have their lives ruined.

For the record, I would support Anonymous if they actually bothered to hack the government and release those files. I would even support them if they hacked known bad guys like Halliburton or known propaganda networks like FOX.

But Anonymous is just picking low-hanging fruit and hyping it up to make themselves look good. The "top secret client list" is nothing more than a marketing strategy by Stratfor. Their client list is: people interested in global politics.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#103

Post by jmvoodoo » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:09 AM UTC

jasondrowley wrote: post #87

devs1010 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"then they should be publicly offering their own correspondences up for inspection" We already are, the government has made it fairly clear that they have the "right" to read anyone's emails they please due to their bullshit "war on terror", its about time we get the same chance to do it to them

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that government employees' correspondence with a private company is confidential.

You're wrong. You can foia request any communication between government employees and anyone if it was done in their official role or on government equipment. There are some exceptions of course, but generally speaking correspondence is anything but confidential (at least in the USA)

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#104

Post by forensic » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:12 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #91

electromagnetic wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to back you on this. This doesn't sit in any moral grey area. This is nothing but corruption. If people genuinely have no problem with the outing of millions of private correspondences, then they should be publicly offering their own correspondences up for inspection. If you're against SOPA, you should be against tyranny like this. This is the tyranny of the minority, of anarchists who aren't doing this for mo…

> If you're against SOPA, you should be against tyranny like this. This is the tyranny of the minority, of anarchists who aren't doing this for moral value or just cause. This wasn't even done for retaliation or idiot bashing like hbgary. This was done for no reason but to cause harm and mayhem. In normal circumstances I would agree with what you say, any sane person would agree with you actually, but these are not n…

Stratfor is a news company. Their only mission is to print accurate information for the consumption of the public. They give away many articles for free, and individuals can subscribe for about $20/month.

Stratfor is not Halliburton. It's sort of the opposite. While mainstream media propaganda spins bullshit about the Euro crisis, Stratfor gives straight-to-the-point, honest reporting and is only concerned with accuracy.

Basically Anon is trying to destroy one of the highest quality news sources available online. This isn't noble.

If they hacked FOX, the NYT, lobbyist emails, the MPAA, or even something like Facebook, I would probably congratulate them for helping humanity.

But not in this case.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#105

Post by eternalban » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:12 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #26

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

Hmm. You know what? Your position, on paper, makes a lot of sense. At the same time, there are times where you say "eh, fuck it." And this, for me, is one of them. Assume we live in a world where those who have power exist in a sphere of privilege. They enjoy protections from the consequences of their actions. Their influence and connections exempt them from the standard costs of citizenship. If that's the case, if t…

> At the same time, there are times where you say "eh, fuck it."

Cognitive dissonance overload!

"Anonymous"/"99%"/TPTB_NOT is correct (imo) in criticizing the TPTB's theory of 'suspended norms/ethos due to emergency' e.g. get ready to be groped by a uniformed servant from the margines. Good times.

Now we have supporters of anon/99/we-the-people's position asserting that the philosophy of "what is Right is what is convenient'/'end justifies the means' is in fact acceptable.

USA is saying "eh, fuck it" when it kidnaps, tortures, rapes (abu ..), terrorizes (same place), and holds in contempt (fuck it) the said "it": Our aspirations, our principles, our heritage, and our "fucking" way of life.

Simply based on that ideological finger print, I would certainly entertain the view that holds these groups and their shenanigans to be entirely the work of TPTB.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#106

Post by russellallen » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:14 AM UTC

Well done, Anonymous. You've hacked into an independent online news service, destroyed their business, probably permanently shut them down, stole money from their readers and will now release all their correspondence with their sources. Fuck you. I was a subscriber - I suppose I should now go back to getting all my news from Murdoch.

This is a blow against the freedom of the press and a blow against a free and open society. There is a reason why we should as a society respect journalists and their sources. I hope the perpetrators are prosecuted and jailed.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#107

Post by forensic » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:15 AM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #89

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

Powerful actors must be held accountable for the use of their action. To believe otherwise means that might makes right. Private actors, whether they be firms or well-connected individuals are (and always have) attempted to influence those holding power. It is in the public interest to expose power and influence-mongering. Government, by virtue of its power over individual citizens needs to be held to a higher standa…

So hack lobbyists. Hack Halliburton. Hack Wall Street. Hack the MPAA.

But Stratfor? One of the highest quality unbiased news sources available to the public? One of the only news outlets free from mainstream media spin, with a fanatical devotion to a just-the-facts reporting style?

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#108

Post by akamaka » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:21 AM UTC

I subscribed to Stratfor for a while and I thought I'd explain what the site is for anyone who's wondering. (And yes, my info was part of the leak, unfortunately)

It's basically a subscription news site ($100/year) that delivers focused international news. They usually stay away from trendy topics and party politics, which is pretty nice.

Despite their claims of having sources around the world, it's quite obvious that most of their information comes from other newspapers and just Googling around. It's infrequent that they would mention getting information from a source, and when they did, it was never anything more than an aside or a rumor. Certainly nothing of value.

That's why I seriously doubt that anything explosive will come from this email leak. People who have access to sensitive information leak it for two reasons: to spread their message to a wide audience (think Watergate and the Washington Post, or Bradley Manning and Wikileaks), or to swap it with other insider groups, in exchange for other information. Stratfor, with its small audience and utter lack of people on the ground, has neither.

Finally, I probably sound kind of negative about Stratfor, and while I no longer subscribe, they did have some really great, unique articles that you wouldn't find in any newspaper. Here's one example: http://www.4hoteliers.com/4hots_fshw.php?mwi=3645

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#109

Post by yaix » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:38 AM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

"Influencial individuals" can do harm to society at large (and have done it quite a lot in the past years). They are "public persons" and must undergo check and control by the society. That is absolutely not comparable with private individuals who's actions are very unlikely to have any damaging impact on the general society. That's the difference.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#110

Post by bballbackus » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 4:54 AM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

This is due to one of my least favorite traits about reddit: the hivemind criminalizes the rich and powerful by defining them as naturally evil. I don't know how this mindset got started on reddit; I would love to find out. It seems to be their way of justifying being middle/lower class by saying the reason the rich/powerful succeed is due the rich/powerful not having a heart and gaming people of their money.