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Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

iranintl.com

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Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#101

Post by themitigating »

Georgelemental wrote: post #92
tokai wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how many people do you need to get killed before you can be a murderous villain? You are actually underlining the point with your apologia for a dictator. It also would be nice if US presidents also took the consequences of their crimes. But your whataboutism is not really an argument for anything here.

Probably most world leaders are "murderous villains" in some way or another. It sucks, but much better than universal anarchy and civil war

Why is it a choice between allowing leaders to almost never be punished or complete anarchy

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#102

Post by ls15 »

m00dy wrote: post #93
Fatnino wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the existence of a minefield near but not in Iran contribute to stability in Iran? How does the removal of those mines destabilized Iran? These are obviously unrelated.

Because, it is all planned way before. Why would you remove those mines ? Turkey has no reason to do that. Maybe they know something...Maybe the regime won't survive and a lot of people will need to run away from their homeland. They might need some secure migration pathways.

> Why would you remove those mines ?

What is a good reason to keep them? Doesn't Turkey still want to join the EU. I'd think that landmines are yet another hindrance.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#103

Post by JadeNB »

sitkack wrote: post #86
JadeNB wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to down vote but also reply with something because I think we need to reconsider the inherent value placed on human life. This is a sentence that I would hope never to have associated with me. We need to re-consider the value of people's lives … on what basis? Because of the harm they have done to others, I guess. And why is that harm so bad? Because people's lives have value, surely. But should we interr…

A civilization should be judged on how it treats the abhorrent and powerless.

> A civilization should be judged on how it treats the abhorrent and powerless.

I'm not sure if this is support or disagreement. If it is disagreement, then I should clarify that, as far as I can tell, I meant to say the same thing, though I certainly said it less pithily.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#104

Post by forty »

ls15 wrote: post #102
m00dy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, it is all planned way before. Why would you remove those mines ? Turkey has no reason to do that. Maybe they know something...Maybe the regime won't survive and a lot of people will need to run away from their homeland. They might need some secure migration pathways.

> Why would you remove those mines ? What is a good reason to keep them? Doesn't Turkey still want to join the EU. I'd think that landmines are yet another hindrance.

Do they really still want to join EU? I thought this ship had sailed a long time ago, and Turkey bullying Finland & Sweden as they want to join OTAN is probably not going to help.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#105

Post by m00dy »

ls15 wrote: post #102
m00dy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, it is all planned way before. Why would you remove those mines ? Turkey has no reason to do that. Maybe they know something...Maybe the regime won't survive and a lot of people will need to run away from their homeland. They might need some secure migration pathways.

> Why would you remove those mines ? What is a good reason to keep them? Doesn't Turkey still want to join the EU. I'd think that landmines are yet another hindrance.

so, there is no mine on eu-russia border ?

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#106

Post by Alir3z4 »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #97
Alir3z4 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that in an era of smartphones and all these gadgets, there's no picture, video or any other type of evidence except "unnamed sources".

Of course the evidence exists lol but you don't burn your sources if you ever want another hot tip and certainly not when it likely means a horrible death for them if you do.

I like how you're confident the evidence exists by seeing 0 evidence.

Sure. Apparently I should also believe Iran has WMD and NATO should attack it. It's coming from a unnamed sources.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#107

Post by themitigating »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #84
luckylion wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already. That sounds plausible, but does it actually happen? I mean, tyrants have certainly fled the country to live somewhere else and retire their ambitions, but have they ever done so peacefully?

Stroessner ruled Paraguay for a long time, but when he was old and his generals staged a coup against him he only gave token resistance and fled to Brazil right away. As far as I know he lived peacefully there until he died. He could have fought back much harder and plunged the country into a civil war like the one that got him into power in the first place. He chose to retire in wealth, comfort and peace instead.

How could he have fought back harder if his generals staged a coup?

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#108

Post by s1artibartfast »

themitigating wrote: post #98
s1artibartfast wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an innate negative reaction to your post and had to spend some time thinking about why that is the case. I think the biggest thing that caused it is the implicit assumption that increased fear for leaders would lead to better government outcomes. I'm not very confident that this is the case. I think the other part that triggered me is that an implies some singular authority that is determining the value of huma…

Threat of punishment is the basis of all law. You can call it "fear" to garner sympathy for your argument but I think you're not being consistent with your application of justice

That kind of gets to my entire point. Of course it's not consistent application of Justice if it dictator can commit genocide and escape to another country. Everyone will agree that in a perfect world they would undergo trial and be sentenced. We don't live in a perfect world and have practical constraints.

Like I said above, what are you going to do if a dictator flees to another country? Invade it and go to War with it?

Is Justice against one individual worth sacrificing tens or hundreds of thousands of lives? Would that be Justice?

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#109

Post by dogma1138 »

mcv wrote: post #96
Fatnino wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the existence of a minefield near but not in Iran contribute to stability in Iran? How does the removal of those mines destabilized Iran? These are obviously unrelated.

I guess the suggestion is that the removal of those mines will make it easier for future Iranian refugees to cross that border.

When Turkey did it around the Syrian border it wasn’t for refugees the shit has already hit the fan and I’m guessing that the Turkish military saw a possibility for intervention either in the war itself or against the Kurdish groups in that region.

They cleared the minefield to be able to operate safely not because they were concerned for the safety of refugees.

Turkey’s border with Iran is mainly with the West Azerbaijan province (not to be confused with Azerbaijan the country) the demographics of that region are usually an Azeri majority or minority majority with a large Kurdish population as West Azerbaijan borders Iranian Kurdistan.

If Turkey is indeed clearing up minefields it’s probably again in perpetration to be able to stage military forces in the area rather than for humanitarian reasons.

I couldn’t find any reliable sources that anything of note is actually happening tho but this is also not something I would expect to even hit the major wire services.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#110

Post by sitkack »

JadeNB wrote: post #103
sitkack wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A civilization should be judged on how it treats the abhorrent and powerless.

> A civilization should be judged on how it treats the abhorrent and powerless. I'm not sure if this is support or disagreement. If it is disagreement, then I should clarify that, as far as I can tell, I meant to say the same thing, though I certainly said it less pithily.

I was attempting to distill the sentiment to a single sentence. And I completely agree with you.
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