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UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

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Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#101

Post by midasuni »

Moissanite wrote: post #51
hnhg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should say high income earners rather than "the rich" here, to be perfectly accurate. The two are not always the same.

Very important for people to understand this. For high earners (100-200k), marginal tax rates can already pass 60%. That is an income which is locally considered very high but compared to our Atlantic cousins is somewhat more normal. I will be thousands of pounds worse off per year under the new tax plans, but I'm OK with that because I understand that it is necessary. However, we are rapidly approaching most people'…

Becaus of the “high income child tax” and student loan repayments marginal tax rates at just 50k hit 70%. They drop again at 60k, but it’s tricky to justify working extra hard for a £5k pay rise when you only keep £2k of it.

Doesn’t help that you can’t file jointly in the U.K. either.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#102

Post by thebruce87m »

cloutchaser wrote: post #17
BoGoToTo wrote: post #5

Don't worry, the Tories will just cut taxes on the rich again and that will fix everything /s

This is such a simplified viewpoint. The UK has never been able to collect more than 39%-40% of GDP in taxes. And that's what the level is at now. Already everyone is paying as much tax as in history. (and the "rich" pay a lot of that, remember you pay £0 tax under £15,000 income per year). You can try and tax more, but it's highly unlikely to work based on past experience. And in these cases, like with corporation t…

What country in the UK has £15k? I just looked at Scotland and England and they both have £12,570 as the basic threshold.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#103

Post by midasuni »

jimnotgym wrote: post #46
jwmcq wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's the solution here to get more in taxes? Easy - increase corporation tax. The main rate has been literally halved over the last 30 years.

Tax Capital Gains at the same rate as income?

Not to mention income from retirees. A pensioner on £35k income pays far less in tax than a worker on £35k income.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#104

Post by midasuni »

Moissanite wrote: post #57
Glawen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that everyone is paying VAT, so yes little income are also taxed

I feel like we need a progressive VAT, which differentiates necessities from luxuries. Probably too complex to implement though.

I pay hardly anything in vat other than a few luxuries.

Food Rent Public transport

No vat on those

Electricity is only 5%

A few quid a year on vat on toothpaste hardly makes a difference.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#105

Post by midasuni »

cloutchaser wrote: post #12
coob wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do one of those overnight, the other not so much. Also: spending without revenue creates a deficit, not necessarily inflation.

He didn't say overnight. Who said that? And Sunak just cancelled all fracking that Truss wanted to start. So the UK has basically decided to NOT have any form of cheap energy. You reap what you sow.

Sunak is keeping the van on wind power. Every agreed that fracking wouldn’t help with the energy crisis.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#106

Post by midasuni »

kypro wrote: post #30

I'll get downvoted for this, but this isn't true if you're one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. Both will see their income rise with inflation. If you're working then, sure, you're getting screwed as always because after just spending billions locking down the economy to saving boomers from Covid, this year we decided to spend billions bailing out boomers pensions, paying for…

While there an element of truth in that workers are subsidising pensioners - mainly though paying their entire economic output in rent, your rant about welfare is somewhat off.

The lack of housing is the single biggest drain on U.K. economic output, as when demand outstrips supply rents rise to a point that all economic activity is captured by land owners. The only way around that is a land value tax, but that would really hit the wealthy.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#107

Post by midasuni »

switch007 wrote: post #91
kypro wrote: post #30

I'll get downvoted for this, but this isn't true if you're one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. Both will see their income rise with inflation. If you're working then, sure, you're getting screwed as always because after just spending billions locking down the economy to saving boomers from Covid, this year we decided to spend billions bailing out boomers pensions, paying for…

Wow you really got triggered that benefits rose with inflation eh > one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. What an absurd and false statement which justifies disregarding the rest of your comment

Workers have been told we can’t have pay rises matching inflation because that would fuel inflation.

But pensioners get a 10% pay rise.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#108

Post by midasuni »

unity1001 wrote: post #79
kypro wrote: post #30

I'll get downvoted for this, but this isn't true if you're one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. Both will see their income rise with inflation. If you're working then, sure, you're getting screwed as always because after just spending billions locking down the economy to saving boomers from Covid, this year we decided to spend billions bailing out boomers pensions, paying for…

> boomers pensions Those boomers spend that money. The money enters the economy. It creates the economic activity needed for the ones who you call 'those who work' to be able to do business and make money. Pumping money to boomers, the poor, disabled and the underprivileged is the easiest way to stimulate an economy. Not giving more money to the rich. > all the money we've borrowed for the boomers Those boomers have…

The boomers are the rich. They are the wealthiest generation ever in the U.K, the generation who typically retired with final salary pensions and a couple of BTLs, and they lay far less tax on their income than workers

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#109

Post by rsj_hn »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #55
rsj_hn wrote: post #26

This is 100% caused by the anti-Russian sanctions policy, yet not a single comment on this thread so far has even mentioned the sanctions and tried to engage in a reasoned debate about whether the economic costs paid by Europe (and especially the energy insecure nations within the EU) were worth whatever moral good boy points the sanctions buy us. Some have suggested the sanctions help Ukraine, but haven't articulate…

The ~100,000 Russian families who just had their son thrown into a meat grinder aren’t laughing. War is hell. People have been warning for years that Russia would continue attacking neighboring countries every other year or so, since it has been going on for years. Can’t blame the world for finally starting to fight back. If the UK government had war gamed this scenario, they would have realized many preparatory acti…

I mean, if, by "fighting back", you mean destroying its own economy, then yes, The West is "fighting back". But not the world, as the vast majority of nations - 7 Billion people -- are not imposing any sanctions because they have more rational leadership than in the 1 Billion people that are destroying their own economy in the name of "fighting back".

The main reason why the West is in rapid decline at the moment is because it is adopting policies based on their therapeutic value to the administrative class, rather than their effectiveness. That's a recipe for failure, and if you want to succeed rather than fail, then you need to choose your actions carefully and strategically rather than slamming your head against a granite wall because you think this means you are "fighting back".

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#110

Post by midasuni »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #40
kypro wrote: post #30

I'll get downvoted for this, but this isn't true if you're one of the two protected classes in the UK: pensioners or welfare recipients. Both will see their income rise with inflation. If you're working then, sure, you're getting screwed as always because after just spending billions locking down the economy to saving boomers from Covid, this year we decided to spend billions bailing out boomers pensions, paying for…

What do you mean by saying £500k government homes? Is this a policy or a consequence of a housing shortage?

Housing shortage. Driven mainly by a wealthy class of nimby home owners.
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