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Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

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Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#101

Post by grog454 »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #81
yreg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am responding to a specific argument. That argument is that App Store is not an internet service. I say it is.

The point is not that the App Store isn't an online service (although I would argue that it more "relies on" an online service), but that its role as part of the OS supersedes that. I can't go back and edit my comment now, but to make it more clear I probably should have written something like: > I strongly disagree that the iOS App Store should be treated as ___only___ an "internet service" rather than...

Why can't we just say internet service or not, privacy applies. My banking is done through internet services and I still have privacy expectations there.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#102

Post by hellfish »

This isn't really all that surprising

Anyone who uses Apple/Google/Microsoft/other products as intended will have no privacy. By as intended, I mean using chrome while logged into a google account, using MacOS while logged into an apple account (and using all of apple's internal applications), using android with a google account, etc

I wouldn't be surprised if the usage data, health data, from e.g. iOS+services goes straight to data brokers. I can't prove this, but it wouldn't surprise me. Even if it didn't, there's no guarantee of how the data will be used internally (or whether it's given to law enforcement, for example)

If someone uses these products as intended and has even the slightest expectation of privacy (e.g. believing any of the vague BS in the TOS), they're probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer (or at the very least, grossly misinformed)

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#103

Post by ezfe »

newaccount74 wrote: post #7

Can someone explain why the App Store doesn't show the "Ask App Not To Track" dialog? Why do 3rd party apps have to ask for permission to track, but Apple's apps do not?

Because "Ask App Not To Track" refers to (for all apps, not just the App Store) tracking across different systems/companies.

For example, a Weather app collaborating with an ad sales company to provide them tracking data would violate "Ask App Not To Track," but Facebook tracking you within the Facebook app does not because it's all internal.

The reason for this is just about the practicality of enforcement: You cannot enforce companies not doing internal tracking because they still have to collect data for their business, so how do you distinguish it.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#104

Post by r0m4n0 »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #4

> I may be getting something wildly wrong here, but I am not sure I see the presence of this Apple ID proxy in Apple’s services logs to be a violation of either its own policies or users’ expectations for using internet services in general. I strongly disagree that the iOS App Store should be treated as an "internet service" rather than a part of the device. The iOS App Store only comes on iOS devices, it comes on al…

I'm not sure what is being argued by the semantics here but the app store is an important aspect of the device but does that make it not an internet service? An app store by definition is almost a direct equivalent to a web browser. It's just a tool to allow you to move data/code onto your device to do more things. Without it, your device still has a functioning OS. Apple has coupled the functionality of app installation and a curated remote repository of apps on the internet and bundled it as "the app store." I'd say most people aren't referring to the app installation aspect when they refer to the app store.

If an app store is a glorified web browser and apple is maintaining content that is loaded into it, it's almost the definition of an internet service no?

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#105

Post by amelius »

dessant wrote: post #52
klabb3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally, someone puts words on the irks I felt the last times this came up. Thank you. Apple is basically loopholing all the shitty ad-tech engagement surveillance bs that plagues the rest of the industry through the app store, pretending like it's any other app. Of course they can, but a lot of the hard-line privacy stuff goes down the drain with the hypocrisy. What bothers me is that Apple really doesn't have to mo…

The public dismissal of the evidence these researchers presented in the last few weeks was surprising. It isn't truly important whether the App Store is an integral component of iOS, which it practically is until Apple becomes compliant with the provisions of the Digital Markets Act, it merely compounds their legal issues due to ignoring user intent when iOS analytics are disabled. The main issue here is that Apple h…

The biggest issue imho is that the device is tethered by the vendor. You can't use it (practically) without being connected to Apple. This should change. I should be able to buy a product and use it with anyone's services. Otherwise, I bought a service and not a product.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#106

Post by talkingtab »

Leaving behind the discussion of whether this is a problem, it is a problem for me. I paid Apple for a device. I don't want Apple to use devices to track me or target me with ads or anything else. That is my personal take.

But what can you do assuming that you want or need a phone? Android is no better. Class action lawsuits enrich law firms and get users a gift card for $0.20 (sarcasm).

I just wonder what would happen if everyone who doesn't want this decides to take Apple to small claims court? These companies, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook continue to violate fundamental rights to privacy because they have no reason to stop. There are no significant penalties.

Or perhaps we need a bill of rights. Anyone know of such a thing?

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#107

Post by giancarlostoro »

talkingtab wrote: post #106

Leaving behind the discussion of whether this is a problem, it is a problem for me. I paid Apple for a device. I don't want Apple to use devices to track me or target me with ads or anything else. That is my personal take. But what can you do assuming that you want or need a phone? Android is no better. Class action lawsuits enrich law firms and get users a gift card for $0.20 (sarcasm). I just wonder what would happ…

Anyone reading this article from Illinois is about to have a fun time with Apple, their privacy laws are reasonably strict. Of course, I'm not a layer, so maybe they found the one legal "loophole" or lawful way to do it.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#109

Post by dessant »

amelius wrote: post #105
dessant wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public dismissal of the evidence these researchers presented in the last few weeks was surprising. It isn't truly important whether the App Store is an integral component of iOS, which it practically is until Apple becomes compliant with the provisions of the Digital Markets Act, it merely compounds their legal issues due to ignoring user intent when iOS analytics are disabled. The main issue here is that Apple h…

The biggest issue imho is that the device is tethered by the vendor. You can't use it (practically) without being connected to Apple. This should change. I should be able to buy a product and use it with anyone's services. Otherwise, I bought a service and not a product.

You're right, and this is what the Digital Markets Act will help achieve. Though considering how tech companies behave in the face of new consumer rights (see how it took Google half a decade and multiple fines to show a GDPR compliant consent popup with a REJECT ALL button), it will be a couple more years before you can install a third-party app store on iOS or sideload an app.

Re: Oh, the Places Your Apple ID Will Go

#110

Post by raxxorraxor »

talkingtab wrote: post #106

Leaving behind the discussion of whether this is a problem, it is a problem for me. I paid Apple for a device. I don't want Apple to use devices to track me or target me with ads or anything else. That is my personal take. But what can you do assuming that you want or need a phone? Android is no better. Class action lawsuits enrich law firms and get users a gift card for $0.20 (sarcasm). I just wonder what would happ…

I think in case of any smartphone OS, you are sadly not really the owner of the device and in contrast the manufacturer has wide reaching permissions for everything. That is partially true for desktop OS as well, but at least here you can override everything to your liking. Those that argued for these mechanism in the interest of security do not get any sympathy from me.

Complaining after that fact seems pointless. If you had administrative rights, you wouldn't have as many issues with being tracked. Being able to freely modify the software running the device and accessing its hardware in the same manner would paint a different landscape.

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