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Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

bbc.com

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Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#101

Post by nashashmi »

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #28
habibur wrote: post #5

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India. Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter. Modi had gone though investigations and was acquitted by the Supreme court of India. It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence. " The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed allegations of "larger conspiracy" levelled by Zakia Jafri, widow of Congress leader Ehsan Jafri who was killed in the 2002…

Saudi Arabia also has a legal system in which people were actually punished for the Killing. Plus his family was given lots of money as blood money.

Modi was dismissed. They didn't look into it. He avoided All investigations when it happened and still avoids questioning to this day. No one was punished. No blood money made its way. Nothing.

Many more people died at modi's hands than MBS. There is no comparison.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#102

Post by Veen »

spamizbad wrote: post #94
habibur wrote: post #5

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India. Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

This is problematic because one of the underpinnings of western liberalism is the notion of Rule of Law: that, at the end of the day, we are all bound to the same rules.

Relations between states and heads of states aren’t governed by laws determined by western liberalism, much as some would like that to be the case.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#103

Post by dvt »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #73
dvt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad take, as it would make diplomacy a very precarious proposition (whereas its entire purpose is to be weak & non-committal). Diplomatic immunity is nothing new and in fact MBS doesn't even assert conduct-based immunity (he's using the even broader "head of state immunity").

Even if one side is using it to commit egregious criminal acts in the others’ country? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46676200 I do not see how the people of the USA benefit from this arrangement.

> I do not see how the people of the USA benefit from this arrangement.

Because you're shortsighted in your hatred for MBS. MBS can be deposed and hung in a public square (along with the entire royal family) for all I care, but that doesn't mean immunity isn't an important diplomatic tool.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#104

Post by Kukumber »

xerxesaa wrote: post #70
Kukumber wrote: post #34

And the US complains about Russia in Ukraine This comedy is fascinating

While I think I get the point you're trying to make, one is a murder of a single individual in their embassy. The other is an all out war across a border. Not sure how they are really comparable.

Who said it was comparable?

I just notice some contradictions in the way they operate, that's it

Up to you to make the comparison and conclusion, i will not tell you what to think

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#105

Post by TremendousJudge »

glogla wrote: post #48
TremendousJudge wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pipelines are notoriously dirty, since the owners can't seem to stop them from leaking, spilling, blowing up, or otherwise malfunctioning. Wikipedia has a handy list of lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_... . If somebody wanted to put an oil pipeline near my property I'd definitely wouldn't feel safe with it there.

It is not that they can't - they just keep more money if they don't. Which shouldn't be surprising in an industry that is literally destroying the world to make money.

I agree, that's why I said they can't seem to do it.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#106

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

habibur wrote: post #5

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India. Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

This is the way of the world. At certain point, there are those who are above the law. Even if we argue that international law is basically 'might is right', it is fascinating, because it effectively brings us as back as a species to medieval kingdoms rules with all the issues that those bring.

And yes, I know there are good and valid reason for leaders to be given some level of immunity to allow them to not be, well, targeted and locked up by current regime on trumped charges, but this is not the situation we have in place here ( and those tend to be limited by the time they serve in office - MBS is likely to enjoy this immunity for life ).

I don't know if it is the real threat of impending nuclear war ( and everything that was done so far to prevent it ) that makes me so depressed about the world, but it is harder and harder for me not to feel.. disappointed with the way things are.

edit: FWIW, Biden finally recognized the reality of who is running that particular kingdom. In a way, it is an embarrassing political defeat, which I assume was purchased with something. I suppose we will find out that what that something was in coming months.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#107

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #73
dvt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad take, as it would make diplomacy a very precarious proposition (whereas its entire purpose is to be weak & non-committal). Diplomatic immunity is nothing new and in fact MBS doesn't even assert conduct-based immunity (he's using the even broader "head of state immunity").

Even if one side is using it to commit egregious criminal acts in the others’ country? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46676200 I do not see how the people of the USA benefit from this arrangement.

Iran

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#109

Post by mgfist »

spamizbad wrote: post #94
habibur wrote: post #5

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India. Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

This is problematic because one of the underpinnings of western liberalism is the notion of Rule of Law: that, at the end of the day, we are all bound to the same rules.

We're not all bound to the same rules and laws. For example, the president of the US can decide to kill with near immunity.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#110

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I think the headline is a bit misleading. "given" immunity to me implied that there was some deal or something where the US government proactively gave MBS immunity.

What happened was the US State Dept determined he had immunity due to his current role as Saudi Arabia PM. Thus, my understanding is that this would be standard diplomatic immunity, no? And if MBS ever stopped being PM he would lose that immunity, as MBS only became PM after the killing took place (not sure if this part is correct).

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