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LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

blog.documentfoundation.org

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Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#101

Post by Brian_K_White »

dhdgrygev wrote: post #19
Brian_K_White wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just exemplified their point. original post: we're not talking about crypto comment: they're not talking about crypto but people still just say "F them crypto is bad!" this comment: F them because crypto is bad! Crypto (money, nfts) is bad, I think smart contracts are a mistake too, and I don't think LO needs blockchain either, but the objection is more like the one someone else said about, if there's some featur…

There are no real world use cases of blockchain tech besides crypto. Or can you demonstrate one?

"can you demonstrate one?"

Blockchain is just bookkeeping. I don't know, can you demonstrate a use case for accounting or book keeping?

Up to now we always had to do accounting in books that can be cooked and have to be trusted.

Blockchain is accounting with books that can't be cooked and don't have to be trusted.

It has other problems which are real, but so what? Everything has some kind of problem.

With blockchain the problem is if you go for convenience and use a centralizing key custodian, then someone else controls your keys and everything they protect, and if you don't, then it's too easy to lose your keys and everything they protected with no recovery.

Well those are real problems but they are no different from the problems of using a plain database that can be copied, modified, hidden, stolen, has to be trusted even though you know you actually can't trust the owner, etc...

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#102

Post by emptysongglass »

maccard wrote: post #70
emptysongglass wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't true. A blockchain powers Secure Scuttlebutt, Jami, Urbit, and has use anywhere a verified supply chain is needed. Because some people have politicized it, now all blockchains are scams or "useless". But this is demonstrably not true. It's just a technology and people have misused it but that doesn't render the technology itself useless or a scam.

> has use anywhere a verified supply chain is needed. Sure, in the same way that a hammer can be used for a screw, or an HGV can be used for commuting to work - i.e. it _will_ do the job, but there were plenty of other alternatives available. The thing that a blockchain does is a _decentralised_ verifiable supply chain. A verifiable supply chain has existed since we've been doing digital signatures, and RSA has exist…

You may think you're being well meaning but you aren't Maersk and can't speak for them. Maersk believes it's an advantage to them to use a blockchain. Maybe we ought to ask Maersk why they chose it.

Everything I read in this thread is dripping with vehemence, hate, ridicule, or certitude (your I haven't seen a demonstrable use case in 15 years).

If the kind of echo chamber you want to build is the one where you've won and any even smallest proffering of a tilt toward blockchain as useful is crushed congratulations you're doing it: nobody who even wants to give one inch to blockchain will come around here. When I try and point out one useful thing is a blockchain, oh that thing is a different kind of blockchain. It's astounding the mental acrobatics people will go to to stand victors over their tiny corner of the internet.

This is frankly culty, repressive behavior that's not at all in the spirit of curiosity.

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#103

Post by fsflover »

manholio wrote: post #79
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a first world perspective. You clearly live with a political stable government you can trust not to steal from you or imprison you for engaging in political protests. People in such places are using decentralized assets to protect themselves. What do you think they should do instead?

> What do you think they should do instead? How about... they, and everybody else around the world, should work hard for good governance for all people of Earth? It's simply obscene to claim that a speculative token peddled by SV venture capitalists could somehow magically solve things like disease, violence, corruption and lack of basic infrastructure keeping these nations down. It's so self serving and detached fro…

> How about... they, and everybody else around the world, should work hard for good governance for all people of Earth?

Easy to say. Try to go protesting in Iran now.

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#104

Post by indigochill »

prepend wrote: post #96
octagons wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could MAYBE be used to create an open/libre clone of services like DocuSign, but there are certainly already ways of validating a signature on a document that don’t require inserting a blockchain into an office suite! Beyond that, I also cannot think of any valid use cases

Document signing is a good potential use case. The current transaction fee is $.50 [0] so that’s not too bad to securely sign a document. There’s a separate issue of verifying and identity proofing wallets. But I think blockchain actually helps solve the problem with pgp of trusting unknown identities and key exchange. Currently if a document is pgp signed by John Doe, I’ve got to figure out if it’s really John Doe a…

> I’ve got to figure out if it’s really John Doe and that’s a bit of work if I don’t already have John’s public key.

Maybe a dumb question, but assuming a scenario where you have a concept of "really John Doe", isn't there always some authoritative source on what that means that you could use to obtain John's public key (whether that's some user registry, direct contact with John, etc)?

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#105

Post by [deleted] »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #101
dhdgrygev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no real world use cases of blockchain tech besides crypto. Or can you demonstrate one?

"can you demonstrate one?" Blockchain is just bookkeeping. I don't know, can you demonstrate a use case for accounting or book keeping? Up to now we always had to do accounting in books that can be cooked and have to be trusted. Blockchain is accounting with books that can't be cooked and don't have to be trusted. It has other problems which are real, but so what? Everything has some kind of problem. With blockchain…

[deleted]

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#106

Post by rvz »

laserbeam wrote: post #64

_sigh_... If you have a good problem to apply blockchain to, just do it. Make a startup. If you want us to come up with problems for you to apply blockchain to, just stop. Find problems and apply whatever solution you need for them. This applies for any single piece of technology one may want to use. The act of reaching out to the community looking for problems and suggesting you want to use hammers is, to me, a sign…

> _sigh_... If you have a good problem to apply blockchain to, just do it. Make a startup.

There already is one similar to LibreOffice and it is called Skiff [0] which is open-source and has E2EE and signs, verifies documents, mail, etc using ENS addresses [1] (for the Ethereum blockchain) and others. Much more useable than 'LibreOffice Online' which that is still a giant hack, and has little to no real-time collaboration support.

LibreOffice really is sinking into irrelevancy as online alternatives have already eaten their lunch.

[0] https://skiff.com

[1] https://ens.domains

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#107

Post by bombcar »

laserbeam wrote: post #64

_sigh_... If you have a good problem to apply blockchain to, just do it. Make a startup. If you want us to come up with problems for you to apply blockchain to, just stop. Find problems and apply whatever solution you need for them. This applies for any single piece of technology one may want to use. The act of reaching out to the community looking for problems and suggesting you want to use hammers is, to me, a sign…

The best use of blockchain is separating people from their money, especially powerful against Venture Capitalists for awhile.

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#108

Post by criddell »

brabel wrote: post #42
web3isgoing wrote: post #18

You would think a message board called "hacker news" would be more open to blue sky thinking. Zero knowledge proofs and a tamper proof ledger of timestamped cryptographic signatures could open up new use cases that are different than relying on central authorities. One idea, document signing: vitalik.eth signs a PDF, everybody can verify the PDF is signed by his private key. He has to broadcast his public key for thi…

Ideas like you suggest have been discussed on this forum uncountably many times. Blockchains in general as well, for well over 10 years now. This stuff may look new and revolutionary to some, but if you've been here long enough you've already seen that stuff go through the hype cycle[1] and it has NOT emerged, at least so far, at the end of that curve looking good. I am currently working on some stuff where blockchai…

I've started to look at blockchains as a solution in search of a problem.

Re: LibreOffice blogs about Blockchain, locks comments after negative user feedback

#109

Post by max51 »

indigochill wrote: post #104
prepend wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Document signing is a good potential use case. The current transaction fee is $.50 [0] so that’s not too bad to securely sign a document. There’s a separate issue of verifying and identity proofing wallets. But I think blockchain actually helps solve the problem with pgp of trusting unknown identities and key exchange. Currently if a document is pgp signed by John Doe, I’ve got to figure out if it’s really John Doe a…

> I’ve got to figure out if it’s really John Doe and that’s a bit of work if I don’t already have John’s public key. Maybe a dumb question, but assuming a scenario where you have a concept of "really John Doe", isn't there always some authoritative source on what that means that you could use to obtain John's public key (whether that's some user registry, direct contact with John, etc)?

> isn't there always some authoritative source

yes there is, and that's why most blockchain projects that interact with the real world are doomed to fail.

Another classic exemple are those who wants to solve supply chain problems. To put it simply, the robustness or decentralisation of the database is not the reason why your inventory doesn't match what's in the warehouse. It's all human-related problem (eg. theft, losing shit, scanning the wrong item, being scammed by suppliers, etc.).

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