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CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

cpsc.gov

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Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#101

Post by somehnguy »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #48
aksss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good summary. I would just add that "can't supply enough power" is a state the board can enter into either in lower battery levels or (more often) when a rider has put their center of mass too far forward, causing the board to work harder to stay under them, while also moving at a higher rate of speed or accelerating - the board can't give enough power to maintain this. Pushback is to be respected, but the user can a…

Those comments are nuts. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... They’re mostly all like “Yeah OneWheels are cool but my buddy leaned too far forward once and now his jaw’s wired shut for 6 weeks” https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... Or “I saw a guy almost die on one of these” https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... Or “Yeah a bunch of my frie…

I’m assuming you don’t take part in the MultiGP drone racing scene then. Onewheels and quads just seem to go together - at any big race you’ll see a bunch of them wheeling around.

Quads can be pretty dangerous too. One wrong switch flip and you can look like you went through a deli slicer. Move up to the bigger prop sizes and they can do more than that.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#102

Post by vel0city »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #27
FpUser wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"heartily recommend that other early adopters think about voluntarily seeking out additional training" Alternatively one can stop being an idiot and ride at safe speed. I bet that "additional training" would require at least this kind of sanity

Are you saying that 25mph is inherently unsafe? What's the safe speed then, for a normal dry day? Does this speed limit apply to motorcycles too?

I ride motorcycles on highways going 80mph+. I rode an engine conversion at 25mph and nope'd right out of doing that again.

The motorcycle's geometry is way different. It has a much larger contact patch. It has much more powerful brakes.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#104

Post by aksss »

mikestew wrote: post #78
easygenes wrote: post #21

It seems lax of CPSC to issue such a damning statement without an accompanying comparative analysis to other board or motor sports. What’s the injury rate vs other similar sports and how much of that is to blame from undereducated or reckless riders? Also, what’s the rationale for the recall if the issue is people ignoring the obvious warnings the thing is giving that the battery is about to die? This doesn’t seem to…

The device tips its nose forward and dumps its rider on their head. There is no need to compare to anything if a device has this behavior. If the battery runs out, I expect the device to come to a stop, not throw me on my ass. I'm pretty sure even a paramotoring rig that runs out of fuel isn't going to immediately hurt me, and those things fly .

It does come to a stop. You get thrown on your ass because of the laws of motion.

Your last statement - are you talking about using a fan with a parasail, which is a stable glider without power? If you want to use that analogy, this is more akin to taking too sharp a turn in a parasail, where the sail can't sustain and collapses in, causing you to fall like a rock because of the law of gravity.

In a nosedive on a Onewheel, it also happens when the rider is asking too much, goes outside the performance envelope, and reaches a failure point. After the rider has been warned by the board that it's approaching that edge, physically and audibly.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#105

Post by dghlsakjg »

frankus wrote: post #25
s17n wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pushback is extremely unintuitive, it should do pushforward instead.

It also seems like they could do haptics, i.e. superimpose an audio-frequency wave on the motor current. Similar to the steering feedback you get with a lane departure warning system. But then again it might be difficult/impossible to make it distinguishable from e.g. rough pavement.

An 80db piezo buzzer is $.13 and can operate on logic levels.

No need to get fancy

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#106

Post by danboarder »

I own and ride a Onewheel Pint (17mph max) and found it limiting, so moved up to an EUC (electric unicycle) that goes 30mph. I always wear a helmet and come from an extensive background riding BMX on ramps and jumps, skateboarding, snowboarding, and mountain biking.

I agree with some other comments here that there is a learning curve and these are relatively dangerous for new riders, just like a skateboard is dangerous. But I do not think these are inherently more dangerous than a normal skateboard or bike. It's just that the self balancing and electronic assistance can give an unearned sense of confidence where the rider is less cautious than they should be.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#107

Post by zamalek »

advisedwang wrote: post #64
celestialcheese wrote: post #52

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortali…

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous generally, but a specific product flaw.

I am absolutely no fan of Future Motion, and I ditched my OneWheel in protest. This isn't entirely a product flaw and comes down to physics: the board pushes you back (by lifting the front) to indicate that you are exceeding it's capacity to balance (all balancing products have a limit, with no exceptions). It will also push back when the battery is low. Either way, ignoring pushback is how people "suddenly have the board stop."

Major caveat though: nearly all reputable Electric Unicycles (what I switched to) use a supercap for emergency power and can pull you out of almost anything. FM is too cheap/stubborn/unknown to do the same.

Furthermore, EUCs generally have a speaker and can make audible alerts when you approach the limit. OneWheel pushback can sometimes be really ambiguous, and can be missed. EUC apps also generally vibrate or something during these events. The same can't be said for FM.

The big issue recently has been the OneWheel GT, a.k.a. Ground Torpedo. The foot sensor "ghosts" and causes the board to miss disengagement from the rider. This results in the board careening off (at 35mph) into whatever/whoever is in front of it. The last I saw was one having made a good bend in a wrought iron fence. FM has generally denied that it is a widespread issue. I suspect it's the Ground Torpedo that has cast so much attention towards FM.

The last nail in the coffin (which has nothing to do with the CPSC issue) is that FM are aggressively anti-right-to-repair. The Ground Torpedo has volatile RAM in the Battery Management System that bricks the device if it loses power (due to self repair, or even complete discharge). The claim is that people are installing inferior batteries, the irony is that it is FM who install cheap crap.

Don't buy a OneWheel. Fuck Future Motion.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#108

Post by ziziyO »

celestialcheese wrote: post #52

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortali…

Bug is a bit of a misnomer, it’s a constraint by the laws of physics due to the board having only a single wheel. If the board is being pushed beyond operating capacity, there is no graceful way to slow it down without the rider cooperating. If the rider never cooperates and the motor overheats, that’s when you see a nosedive.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#109

Post by alana314 »

alden5 wrote: post #3

onewheels suffer from a problem known as nosediving in which the board shuts off when it can't supply enough power to support the rider, as the board is self balancing this is a problem intrinsic to the board's form factor. The board works in a similar fashion to balancing something like an umbrella on your hand, as the rider leans forward it creates an imbalance that requires the board to accelerate in order to keep…

Pushback on my XR is extremely subtle. The GTs have audio pushback but it's quiet. The app on my phone and watch tell me if I'm low on battery or have wheelslip, but I wish there was just a simple pushback notification. It would be so easy.

Re: CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards

#110

Post by whimsicalism »

roughly wrote: post #96
whimsicalism wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then cyclists. They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a greater degree.

I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those folks were frightening. Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom, their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is still adequately supplied.

In SF, I actually notice this more with the non-rental ones - the bikeshare e-bikes are pedal assist so a bit different.

I am hoping that as time goes on these newfound e-bike owners will get more comfortable and will respect traditional biking norms.

Another phenomena I've noticed is a lot more kids with e-bikes, oftentimes 3 kids to a single bike.

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