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Story: “It would be career limiting..."

doomedprojects.com

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Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#101

Post by ajmurmann »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #86
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Agile would have been a great fit. Too many requirements, no real information - it's exactly the situation where throwing out prototypes and getting feedback can lead to a solution.

I don't think hiring some certified Agile gurus and reshuffling all the teams in the middle of the project would have improved the chances of delivery.

It depends if you do certified Agile™ or apply some core agile principles. Getting something that works ASAP and then iterate is a huge win whenever possible. Losing steam on a project that hasn't met any useful milestone yet must be one of the main sources of waste in our industry. Granted, 15 months in might make it tough to correct course towards a shippable milestone. Definitely worth the exercise tough.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#102

Post by RajT88 »

I don't think I've ever heard an anecdote about a "career limiting" statement being made which wasn't a red flag about the company culture.

I think my personal favorite was someone - seriously - saying to a Sales guy that he shouldn't espouse his opinion that he didn't like Bourbon anywhere near the CEO, as that would be "career limiting". WHAT!

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#103

Post by deepsun »

duped wrote: post #47

I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…

I agree, however, the teams where people don't need to read the audience, and can just freely present problems whenever they want without fear of repercussions are the most productive, in my experience.

The management team must be "thick skinned" enough, though, to be able to take the blame and work on the problem. Maybe talk in private to the person about the tact.

Of course, I'm not going to try, just personal observation.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#104

Post by purpleblue »

This EXACTLY happened to me at a somewhat well known software company. We were working on a project and I spoke out that the performance wasn't anywhere where it needed to be. I was pretty sure it wasn't going to work in a real situation.

I proposed solutions, and the lead engineers rejected my ideas. My manager gave me a horrible performance review filled with lies. I went to HR and then all of my coworkers stepped up on the record and said what was written was wrong. He was forced to rewrite my entire performance review. I changed teams shortly after this and the project was canned 6 months later.

Everyone who was wrong "failed upwards" which is usually how things go in Silicon Valley and everywhere else unfortunately.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#105

Post by trap_goes_hot »

I deal with C-level folks on a daily basis, and if you come to them with problems, its not always clear to them what you want them to do about it. They are not going to be intimately familiar with everything. It's only human nature. Better is to provide the information along with something like "Hey, and here's an idea that might help us not lose the contract. I'd like to be give a chance to implement it.". Senior management can't evaluate people on a technical basis, but they can and do remember people who stood up and took on a challenge.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#106

Post by johnfn »

donatj wrote: post #40

> I spent about 18 months working on a doomed project. For a lot of that time, I thought I was the only one who realized it was doomed. I had a similar feeling about a project once. I thought "Boy is this stupid. No one in their right mind is going to pay for this. Why are we building this." Let me manager know my feelings. Stayed and built it. Thing is a huge success. One of our best selling products. Boy do I still…

Conversely, one time I worked for 12 months on a project I believed was dumb on a team of at least 30 to 40. I thought no one was going to pay for it and it made no sense why we were building it. I told my manager my feelings and he brushed them off.

A year later the entire project was wound down. It had never shipped past an extremely limited beta. It completely failed to generate any sort of traction or product market fit. The manager who brushed off my concerns left the team way before this and went to work on something else in the organization.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#108

Post by edw519 »

OK, you trio of rabble-rousers are now an Architecture Board.

Fuck you. Pay me.

(I was going to add a whole bunch of pithy wisdom after this, but I think this is always a good stopping point because nothing good for anyone comes from being grossly underpaid. What did you think would happen?)

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#109

Post by tdeck »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #99
BWStearns wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> concoct a plan to stage the product development and release such that it gets done and you don't cost a giant contract Yes, always showing up with a solution to problems that you've surfaced is a good idea and good for your career, ... BUT: isn't coming up with a solution to this problem literally the job of the management team that they presented to? If management hears "the thing you think will happen will absolu…

Suppose you were a junior engineer working with a senior engineer. They gave you a task, and you came to a similar conclusion: it was their job to do X, but they weren't doing it. Would you simply tell them they're not doing their job, or would you ask questions, talk in private, and try to dig in tactfully? When I was 22 or so, I did go around telling a certain senior engineer that they weren't doing their job. I st…

> Would you simply tell them they're not doing their job, or would you ask questions, talk in private, and try to dig in tactfully?

Telling a manager "we uncovered work that wasn't in the original spec" isn't literally the same thing as telling them they aren't doing their job.

Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."

#110

Post by dimitar »

duped wrote: post #47

I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…

So what other possible solution there is? Cut scope? Hire 200 more people?
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