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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

efinancialcareers.com

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#101

Post by jbluepolarbear »

antegamisou wrote: post #8
rr808 wrote: post #4

I switched from C++ because the type of work is typically boring. Its either system level stuff, or HFT, usually some market data system or similar. Not to mention its likely a big old system with legacy code base. Seeing the salaries now I kinda regret switching out, but the companies and business problems you get in Python & Java are much more interesting.

> the type of work is typically boring. May be a personal taste thing but graphics programming, computer vision, scientific computing, robotics and even some embedded systems work is far from boring imo. But certainly the above are niche fields in a market where software engineering is almost always limited to webdev.

As a game developer I agree that a lot of C++ work can be really fun, but this less than 10% of what C++ is used for. More so you have databases, non-robotic embedded work, crypto (ew), systems work, etc. And they all pay terrible; except financial, but that’s the most boring of all C++ work.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#102

Post by brrrrrm »

deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

You've presented a false dichotomy between "web" and "embedded systems".

C++ fuels the engines behind Python and JavaScript. Databases, compilers, machine learning libraries: all C++ and actively maintained.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#103

Post by ryandrake »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51
deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

> Employees may be leaving the embedded space Embedded opportunities have been slowly shrinking for years. For whatever combination of reasons, a lot of employers think that embedded work is easy or otherwise doesn’t require a large budget. It’s increasingly bizarre to get a well-designed IoT device with a very polished mobile app and web UI, then struggle with hardware factory resets and firmware upgrades because th…

Many hardware companies still see software as just another line item on the BOM: Like a screw or a gasket. It's something you build cheaply or buy from a supplier and sprinkle it on the product somewhere on the assembly line. These hardware companies have no concept of typical measures of software quality, building an ecosystem, release management, sometimes even no concept of source control. They tell an overworked embedded software engineer: "Go build something that barely meets these requirements, ship it, and then throw the scrap away." like metal shavings from their CNC machine.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#104

Post by UncleMeat »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #30

There's lots of C++ programmers out there. But they're bottled up in FAANG, I think. So you have to be able to compete with that. Working at Google is on the whole a lot of C++. Major parts are moving to Go, certainly. But there's absolutely giant code-bases of pretty cleanly written C++ services, and most Googlers are quite proficient in it and there's whole teams at Google that work on improving C++ standards and t…

From what I understand, Google is really about a crippled subset of C++, that people jokingly call "C+-". I ran a C++ shop for 25 years. I used to program in it, but stopped, many moons ago. The new C++ is a huge change from what I knew. I am expecting to see a lot of hate for the language, in this thread. Regardless, it is a very powerful language, and it is not for the faint of heart. I attended a Swift conference,…

Perhaps in the past, but they aren't too terribly far behind C++20 and a bunch of stuff that has been added to the language over time (like stringviews) was made available much earlier via library support. I don't think I've ever heard this "C+-" joke at Google despite working in C++ here for a very long time.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#105

Post by codalan »

The pool of C++ devs hasn't dried up.

They're just working on other things in other languages.

If there was strong demand for embedded C/C++ devs that paid well, I wouldn't be doing C# REST APIs on Azure. Not that I don't enjoy working on APIs, but I do like working with bare metal more.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#106

Post by sk1pper »

mkl95 wrote: post #25

Rust should make the pool of C++ developers decrease exponentially in the coming decades. There's little reason to code a greenfield project in C++ unless it involves leveraging some niche libraries, and those niche libraries will eventually have Rust equivalents.

Hmm, I think that's a little heavy-handed. Just off the top of my head: CUDA (maybe other gpgpu stuff too), gamedev, most projects with a UI. The tooling you'd be using in those spaces is still bleeding edge; too much so to use with a greenfield project that you intend to put in production, imo.

I guess you said "in the coming decades," which might be true, but for the time being it's more than just niche libraries that might push one to use C++.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#107

Post by hardware2win »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #99
hardware2win wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this relevant?

boomer sooner

The point is

Just because we can teach programming with cpp, does it mean that we should?

Seems like no.

There are better designed langs and ecosystems that allow students to move faster.

Go python c#

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#108

Post by bee_rider »

zabzonk wrote: post #52
sentinalien wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really no, 7 figure roles are few and far between

but definitely 6 figure - i know i was, and that's going back years

The difference between 6 and 7 figures can be 7 figures. I guess you must mean a high 6 though?

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#109

Post by posnet »

bogwog wrote: post #54

Question: what kind of skills do financial companies typically look for from C++ devs? Whenever I hear “C++ expert”, I don’t know what that means. Are they masters of the STL? Are they part of the “C with classes” church? Are they an unhinged template meta programmer? Are they a major gcc/clang contributor? Did they co-author a part of the language spec? Or are they just some dude with 7 years of experience working o…

From my experience in HFT, the answer was "unhinged template meta programmer" with a healthy dose of assembly/reverse engineering thrown in.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#110

Post by hnews_account_1 »

jart wrote: post #19
deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

Isn't it common for C++ devs in finance to make seven figure salaries?

There are no 7 figure dev roles in finance except in very select hedge funds where one time bonuses in 5 or 6 years may be that large. 6 figure is the norm. At 7 figures, you’re likely in management and not working on technical details.
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