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Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

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Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#101

Post by public_defender »

elgenie wrote: post #96
public_defender wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practice of routinely scheduling a c-section is basically a confession that birth medicine doesn't serve the patient. Any reasonable medical system would allow natural birth to progress until medical intervention became necessary.

Alternatively, a reasonable medical system might err on the side of a few more not entirely necessary C-sections as opposed to more not entirely necessary maternal and baby deaths. As a legacy of upright locomotion balanced with large cranium size and infant helplessness, humans have ended up with an objectively poor design for giving birth to offspring. Death during that process is “natural”.

I think the first part is correct. There is probably an optimal rate of c-section which is materially higher than "strictly necessary" and optimizes for mom+baby health. What I am concerned about is the scheduled c-sections. For most births, there is not really a medically credible way to determine in advance that vaginal birth will be dangerous (as a relevant corrolary, consider that there is no way to meaningfully determine the weight of a baby prior to birth).

C-sections are scheduled in advance (sometimes over a month in advance) because the American medical system has optimized for cost reduction (which includes extreme risk aversion) rather than patient outcomes.

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#102

Post by jandrese »

public_defender wrote: post #77
exhilaration wrote: post #9

The answer is scheduled C-sections and if you haven't read it, Atul Gawande's 2006 New Yorker article on why they've become so common is good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/10/09/the-score After watching The Business of Being Born , Gawande's article was really helpful in understanding why things are done the way they are.

The practice of routinely scheduling a c-section is basically a confession that birth medicine doesn't serve the patient. Any reasonable medical system would allow natural birth to progress until medical intervention became necessary.

It's not like you have to wait till the last second to decide that natural birth will be too risky. With regular sonograms it's entirely possible to note when a baby is in a risky position (feet down, umbilical wrapped around the neck for example) and decide to schedule the c-section. If the baby moves into a proper position then the c-section can be cancelled, but if not they can avoid a lot of complications. Also, there are likely lower error rates from having a well planned and orderly procedure instead of emergency ones. The mother and baby could be in much danger if she needs an emergency procedure right at shift change.

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#103

Post by thakoppno »

lostNFound wrote: post #36
exhilaration wrote: post #9

The answer is scheduled C-sections and if you haven't read it, Atul Gawande's 2006 New Yorker article on why they've become so common is good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/10/09/the-score After watching The Business of Being Born , Gawande's article was really helpful in understanding why things are done the way they are.

That’s correct, and scheduled C-Sections are also the reason Christmas is the rarest birthday.

Tangent but it occurred to me the other day that it takes 9 years before one experiences a birthday on every day of the week. Over the course of a lifetime maybe the dispersal evens out but it seems like some of us are just destined to have more birthdays on the weekend.

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#104

Post by public_defender »

pc86 wrote: post #94
ezekg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only have an opinion on the ridiculous prevalence of c-section deliveries if you’re a medical processional?

No, but this opinion is demonstrably wrong. Read any of the ACOG literature, there are dozens of peer-reviewed studies about the safety and efficacy of induction, assisted deliveries like vacuums, and both scheduled and emergency c-sections. Scheduled c-sections outperform emergency c-sections in every metric tracked. Scheduled c-sections are no worse for the baby than natural delivery, and if you take into account r…

My opinion isn't stupid, I have just considered and valued sources that you have disregarded. The ACOG is a trade group that supports medical intervention in birth. It doesn't make their contributions to research on the efficacy of medical intervention in birth irrelevant, but you should consider their contributions in the same light as Exxon's sponsored research into the environmental impacts of oil extraction.

There is no good reason to have a medical doctor attend every birth. Of course in a country with a 30% c-section rate, there is much more for doctors to do. I don't think that any credible source will defend 30% as an optimal rate of surgical intervention in birth, but feel free to rebut me.

C-sections are only "no worse" for the mother and baby if you only consider mortality. Let's also consider:

1) Mother-child bonding time in the first two hours after birth.

2) Inoculation of the baby to mother's flora in the birth canal.

3) Mother's ability to care for the baby while recovering from surgery.

4) Postpartum mental health of mother who has been denied natural birth.

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#105

Post by quickthrower2 »

jerf wrote: post #34

This is a good example of how in the real world, everything is correlated with everything. Understanding this principle, I would expect uneven birth times and birth dates. I may not be able to guess what will cause it to be uneven (though in this particular case I would have gotten pretty close), or by how much it will deviate from uniformly random (I would have gotten this wrong to the low side), but it's sure to be…

Mu guess was going to be the body is less likely to want to go into labour at night so “holds off” until the morning to some extent but not always!

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#106

Post by charcircuit »

lostNFound wrote: post #36
exhilaration wrote: post #9

The answer is scheduled C-sections and if you haven't read it, Atul Gawande's 2006 New Yorker article on why they've become so common is good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/10/09/the-score After watching The Business of Being Born , Gawande's article was really helpful in understanding why things are done the way they are.

That’s correct, and scheduled C-Sections are also the reason Christmas is the rarest birthday.

Is December 25th actually rarer than February 29th?

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#107

Post by [deleted] »

thakoppno wrote: post #103
lostNFound wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s correct, and scheduled C-Sections are also the reason Christmas is the rarest birthday.

Tangent but it occurred to me the other day that it takes 9 years before one experiences a birthday on every day of the week. Over the course of a lifetime maybe the dispersal evens out but it seems like some of us are just destined to have more birthdays on the weekend.

[deleted]

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#108

Post by [deleted] »

public_defender wrote: post #104
pc86 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but this opinion is demonstrably wrong. Read any of the ACOG literature, there are dozens of peer-reviewed studies about the safety and efficacy of induction, assisted deliveries like vacuums, and both scheduled and emergency c-sections. Scheduled c-sections outperform emergency c-sections in every metric tracked. Scheduled c-sections are no worse for the baby than natural delivery, and if you take into account r…

My opinion isn't stupid, I have just considered and valued sources that you have disregarded. The ACOG is a trade group that supports medical intervention in birth. It doesn't make their contributions to research on the efficacy of medical intervention in birth irrelevant, but you should consider their contributions in the same light as Exxon's sponsored research into the environmental impacts of oil extraction. Ther…

[deleted]

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#109

Post by public_defender »

jandrese wrote: post #102
public_defender wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practice of routinely scheduling a c-section is basically a confession that birth medicine doesn't serve the patient. Any reasonable medical system would allow natural birth to progress until medical intervention became necessary.

It's not like you have to wait till the last second to decide that natural birth will be too risky. With regular sonograms it's entirely possible to note when a baby is in a risky position (feet down, umbilical wrapped around the neck for example) and decide to schedule the c-section. If the baby moves into a proper position then the c-section can be cancelled, but if not they can avoid a lot of complications. Also,…

I agree with a lot of this. Let me be clear that I don't think we should do anything to materially increase the need for emergency c-sections. It just seems to me that the prolific, and often early scheduling of surgery leads to a lot of unnecessary intervention.

Re: Why are so many babies born around 8:00 AM? (2017)

#110

Post by geoduck14 »

lostNFound wrote: post #36
exhilaration wrote: post #9

The answer is scheduled C-sections and if you haven't read it, Atul Gawande's 2006 New Yorker article on why they've become so common is good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/10/09/the-score After watching The Business of Being Born , Gawande's article was really helpful in understanding why things are done the way they are.

That’s correct, and scheduled C-Sections are also the reason Christmas is the rarest birthday.

I ran data for a call center. The day with the lowest volume was July 4th.
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