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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#101

Post by bombcar »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #76
bombcar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a more accurate measurement would be "baseline + X" - you don't really need to go above the average household size, but you can fit people in way denser than 25m^2 (270 sq ft) if they share common areas. The average dorm room is 230 sq ft (with a roommate!) but the dorm provides common areas and other amenities. Another thing to consider when comparing countries is what is considered "living space" and what is…

It depends on how you measure those 25m^2; I lived in a studio in Copenhagen for a while and my 25m^2 included the common areas / roof garden etc. Private space was around 16-20m^2, and I am being generous here.

Yeah, so many things go into it that it's hard to just compare numbers, you really have to live it to compare.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#102

Post by BlargMcLarg »

dcolkitt wrote: post #74

Should also be noted that Tokyo is one of the few major metropolises in the world where the price of housing has not meaningfully increased in real terms since 2000[1]. The Japanese constitution drastically limits zoning, building and land use restrictions. As a result the city of Tokyo builds more new housing than all of California or England.[2] (And no, this isn't because of Japan's demographics. While Japan as a…

>(And no, this isn't because of Japan's demographics. While Japan as a whole is stagnating, the population of Tokyo is still increasing as fast as London, New York or the Bay Area because of high rural to urban migration.)

Tokyo had negative population growth in 2022 and is forecasted to continue decreasing in population. That said, these differences existed before Tokyo's population stagnated.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#103

Post by allturtles »

rippercushions wrote: post #3

The article makes a major mistake: it uses Tokyo Metropolis (Tokyo-to, basically "Tokyo State", area 2,194.07 km2) for comparisons, not central Tokyo (23-ku, aka the former Tokyo City, area 619 km2). So it's basically the same as saying houses in New York are much larger than those in Paris, because you're comparing all of New York State including housing in Buffalo etc with the 20 arrondissements of central Paris. >…

Your point that we have to be careful about the basis of comparison is well-taken, but your analogy is not sound. New York state is 141,000 km2, it's over 1/3 the size of all of Japan.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#104

Post by Dracophoenix »

diceduckmonk wrote: post #79
davidkuennen wrote: post #12

As someone being in Tokyo right now chatting with locals about this topic it's just not generally true or comparable to other cities. Sure there are parts of Tokyo that are cheaper, but Tokyo is gigantic. All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small.

> locals about this topic Are the locals foreigners or Japanese? The set of housing options are different between the two. There's an implicit price premium and threshold on the units with landlords receptive to foreigners. The cheaper accommodations are not going to be available especially if tenant isn't fluent in the language. > All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small…

How much do you have to pay in monthly housing costs with the inclusion of utilities and amenities?

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#105

Post by Dracophoenix »

tjpnz wrote: post #37

I'm looking at buying next year. Unlike where I'm from (New Zealand) property in Tokyo is better quality (although that's not really difficult) and dare I say cheaper.

I've heard good things about New Zealand real estate. I'm guessing spiraling prices are why you'd want to leave?

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#106

Post by CapricornNoble »

nostrebored wrote: post #54
lhl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, this article is basing it's numbers off of this (linked) study: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/airdrive-images/wp-conten... If you view page 6 and 7, you'll see why these numbers are largely irrelevant since the boundaries for all the "cities" except NYC (which is the 5 boroughs) include the large swathes of suburbs/exurbs around the city. A study looking at 23-wards vs Inner London vs City of Paris would…

JPY is poised for an astronomical fall. The government cannot both keep servicing debt and buoying the currency . Those houses will appreciate in value JPY denominated and crater in terms of USD.

So....living in Japan with a USD income we should actually wait longer to pull the trigger on buying real estate? I was already sizing up properties across the country, putting together a plan for my family to buy properties for rental income because they are already cheap...

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#108

Post by monting »

rgmerk wrote: post #5

Paris, London and New York - the key points of comparison - aren’t exactly known for their spacious housing. One other point that many of the Tokyo fans don’t acknowledge is how extraordinarily ugly the place is. Sure, it’s clean (more than you can say for New York) but clearly nobody in Tokyo cares about what their house looks like from the outside. And I’ve never seen more miserable public parks in a developed coun…

You folks ought to spend some time in Taiwan. I'm in Tokyo now, was in TW for a couple of years prior. Tokyo is extremely beautiful in comparison. (I'm Taiwanese Canadian)

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#109

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

pezezin wrote: post #60
rgmerk wrote: post #5

Paris, London and New York - the key points of comparison - aren’t exactly known for their spacious housing. One other point that many of the Tokyo fans don’t acknowledge is how extraordinarily ugly the place is. Sure, it’s clean (more than you can say for New York) but clearly nobody in Tokyo cares about what their house looks like from the outside. And I’ve never seen more miserable public parks in a developed coun…

Not just Tokyo, but the whole of Japan. I live in Aomori, I have traveled quite a bit around the country, and I haven't seen yet a single city that wasn't extremely ugly. I have asked many Japanese people, and they just don't care.

Can you post examples of this ugliness? I’ve never been to Japan and am curious. I had never heard of this.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#110

Post by citrusybread »

rippercushions wrote: post #3

The article makes a major mistake: it uses Tokyo Metropolis (Tokyo-to, basically "Tokyo State", area 2,194.07 km2) for comparisons, not central Tokyo (23-ku, aka the former Tokyo City, area 619 km2). So it's basically the same as saying houses in New York are much larger than those in Paris, because you're comparing all of New York State including housing in Buffalo etc with the 20 arrondissements of central Paris. >…

> it uses Tokyo Metropolis (Tokyo-to, basically "Tokyo State", area 2,194.07 km2) for comparisons, not central Tokyo (23-ku, aka the former Tokyo City, area 619 km2). So it's basically the same as saying houses in New York are much larger than those in Paris, because you're comparing all of New York State including housing in Buffalo etc with the 20 arrondissements of central Paris.

As others have said, difference between NYC and NYS is much much larger than that...

But for reference, Ottawa, Canada, is one of the largest cities in Canada by area at 2778 km^2. But the Greater Toronto Area, what many call "Toronto", is ~7000km^2 and only has ~6 million people...

Toronto proper is only 630km^2, with 3 million people. The scale here is reasonable, Tokyo has excellent transportation options that make it realistic to live anywhere in that region.

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